Anti Rhaenyra Antis - Tumblr Posts

I'm so tired of Rhaenyra antis saying that Rhaenyra wouldn't like Daenerys as a reason why we shouldn't like Rhaenyra or the Blacks. It's such a pointless argument because there's no fucking reason why she wouldn't love Dany. Rhaenyra loved Visenya, even named her daughter after her, so why wouldn't she love Dany, who was also a warrior queen? Next, Rhaenyra would totally admire Dany's goal of reclaiming the Iron Throne, after all, Rhaenyra and her family were also usurped. Also Dany literally brought dragons back into the world, that alone would make Rhaenyra love and respect her!

Some people might try to argue Rhaenyra wouldn't like Dany trying to end the slave trade, and I say to that: where the fuck did they get that idea?? Rhaenyra was born and raised in Westeros, a place where slavery has been outlawed for a while, why would she care about the slave trade in Essos? Sure we don't get anti-slavery tirades from Rhaenyra, but we don't get those from literally anyone in the books except Dany! The closest we get is Ned exiling Jorah for selling slaves, does that mean everyone else in Westeros is against Dany's slave rebellion? No!

In conclusion: Rhaenyra would have loved Dany because, not only is she her descendant, she is the Mother of Dragons, a warrior, a ruling queen, a conqueror, and a fucking awesome woman. Fuck all TG's anti-Rhaenyra bs.

It's so annoying how people claim Rhaenyra was a bad queen because of her "horrible tax policy". She was fucking at war, war requires a lot of money to fund. Aegon got his money by putting the Crown further in debt to banks in Essos, that's not a good idea. Setting up your administration by burying your country in debt while allowing your brothers and armies to destroy a bunch of your land is setting yourself up for failure.

Rhaenyra made the best call she could under the circumstances. She couldn't let her brother's army continue to lay waste to the country and she had to root out any hidden rebels so they wouldn't try to assassinate her or her remaining children. This takes funds, funds the crown didn't have after Viserys' less than frugal reign and Aegon's reckless borrowing.

So yes, Rhaenyra did levy a heavy tax, it was necessary, but it was yet another heavy burden for the smallfolk. They had endured a lot from the war, which was entirely the Green's doing, and were riled up further by religious fanatics (who had loyalty to the Greens). The tax and Helaena's death were just the last straws, if Aegon had continued ruling, they would have rioted against him.

So no, Rhaenyra's tax policy did not make her a bad queen. If there was no war, there would have been no need for a severe tax or the inquisition run to root out Green supporters. Therefore, once again, it all traces back to the Greens, the Dance and everything that happened in it is their fault, end of story.

Love how Nettles and show Laena stans claim that Rhaenyra, and by association her fans, are racist. It just really shows their own lack of critical thinking and hatred for Rhaenyra (for no good reason).

Like, for Laena, there's no evidence that Rhaenyra hated her, let alone for her race. She and Rhaenyra were, at the very least, friendly. The show cut out their close friendship from the book to make way for the contrived drama with Alicent. There is no evidence that Rhaenyra disliked Laena, the closest we have is her being a little jealous of Laena dancing with Daemon. That had nothing to do with Laena herself, it was about Daemon, the brothel, and her wanting to marry him. Even after Laena's death, she is only ever angry with Daemon, never Laena.

With Nettles, we only have the book evidence. Yes, in the book, we have a passage saying that Rhaenyra looked down on Nettles for not looking Valyrian. This is where we need our critical thinking skills, actually we need them for the whole book. The first question we need to ask is, does this make sense for Rhaenyra as a character? Simple answer: no. Rhaenyra loved her all her children, including her oldest. She didn't love Jace, Luke, and Joff any less because they didn't inherit her features. Then there's the matter of Rhaenyra supposedly accusing Nettles of "magic" for taming Sheepstealer. Rhaenyra would have no issue with witchcraft, she loved Visenya, who was rumored to use blood magic.

So why did she order Nettles' execution? Well Daemon himself told us: Mysaria. Rhaenyra at this point was in KL and had been betrayed by the dragonseeds Ulf and Hugh, despite the fact that she legitimized them and gave them lordships. This betrayal was quickly followed by that of Corlys, her Hand. This left her with Mysaria as one of her only advisors, and Daemon was off doing seemingly nothing with Nettles. Rhaenyra has lost almost all her children and had been abandoned by her closest supporters. A perfect set up for Mysaria to manipulate her into getting revenge on Daemon (by the way in the books, Mysaria was Lyseni, meaning very white). It was Mysaria who convinced Rhaenyra that Daemon was sleeping with Nettles and convinced her to order her execution.

In conclusion, no, Rhaenyra was not racist. She never displayed hatred or even anger towards Laena, even was on seemingly good terms with her. Rhaenyra's anger towards Nettles and her execution order was driven by paranoia from the betrayal of the dragonseeds fed on by Mysaria, end of story. The most racist character would be Mushroom for going on about Nettles' "non-Valyrian looks", not Rhaenyra.

Rhaenyra and Feminism

I find it so funny how TG stans go on and on about how Rhaenyra wasn't a "feminist", when they're supporting team male progeniture. Like sure, Rhaenyra wasn't out there reading/writing feminist literature and manifestos against the patriarchy, but who was? Definitely not their beloved Alicent, their rapist king, or their misogynistic kinslayer/war criminal.

Let's do a quick history lesson, shall we? Queen Elizabeth I, the second ruling queen of England and one of the greatest rulers of that country. One of her most famous acts was the execution of Mary Queen of Scots. Does that make her an evil person who is a sign that her father and the other supporters of the patriarchy were right, that a woman isn't fit to rule? Now, we also have no records of Elizabeth interfering with the succession choices of her lords or making laws that women should be treated equal to men. Does this mean her reign was meaningless or even harmful to the feminist movement?

The answer to both these questions is fuck no. Elizabeth simply ruling was a huge step for the feminist movement. She showed that a woman could rule just as well if not better than a man.

Now a greenie could argue that Rhaenyra wasn't a good ruler, to which I answer, she never had a chance to properly rule. Had Rhaenyra ascended undisputed there would have been no need for any of her unpopular decisions (i.e. the heavy tax, Nettles' execution, etc.) Her reign would have set a precedent that a female heir is acceptable and the change would ripple out from there, much like it did with early female rulers in the real world.

As for why Rhaenyra didn't support Baela and Rhaena, that wasn't her decision, it was Corlys'. Corlys had decided that Driftmark would pass through Laenor's line not Laena's and he rejects any of Rhaenys' suggestions to the contrary in the show. Lucerys had been accepted by Laenor, Corlys, and Viserys as Laenor's legitimate heir, so that's the end of it. Corlys even had the chance to name Baela or Rhaena heir after Luke's death, but instead he chose Addam and later Alyn, two bastards who were, supposedly, of Laenor's line. Now, am I saying that I agree with Corly? No, in fact I really don't like him, but who his successor would be is his decision.

For Rhaenyra to step in and force him to change his mind would not only destroy what's left of any goodwill between the Targaryens and Velaryons (which her father put the responsibility of on her by forcing her to marry Laenor) but also would make the lords of Westeros a reason to revolt. Aegon I allowed the lords to exercise almost the same amount of power they did before the Conquest, part of that is the choice over who would succeed them. As for Luke being heir, Rhaenyra never forced Corlys to acknowledge him and affirm him as heir, that was, once again, his choice. He could have chosen to speak out against her and declare the boys bastards, with the support of Rhaenys, which would force Viserys to either remove Rhaenyra as heir or at least remove Luke from the line of succession. Or a much easier move would have been to remove Laenor as heir to Driftmark and give the position to Laena, yet Corly never did either of these things.

Yeah, Rhaenyra chose to embrace the opportunity this gave her, why wouldn't she? That's a political move that strengthens her claim in the face of the Greens' constant undermining and plotting. Literally every ruler in Westeros does shit like that, that's how the world works, if you want to rule, you need to play political games of some kind.

And before any of the greenies try to bring up the time when some lords brought a question of succession before Rhaenyra during the Dance, let me cover that real quick. Rhaenyra was in the middle of a war and knew full well that most of the lords would be willing to turn on her quickly, something she couldn't afford. So yes, she chose to support the male heirs over the lords' daughters, because she knew that was what the lords wanted and she needed their support. Again, had she not been at war, she wouldn't have had to make this choice and we can't know what she would have done.

Now, to conclude this rant: Rhaenyra wasn't a modern or suffrage era feminist, but that doesn't make her an anti-feminist tyrant. She would have been the beginning of a shift in the misogynistic ideals set so steadfastly in Westeros as her reign would set a precedent for future ruling queens. How could she have our ideals of feminism when the roots of them had barely begun to develop? That's an impossible expectation to put on her and the most hypocritical argument anyone could have. TG usurped Rhaenyra because they wanted to further uphold the patriarchy and none of them cared about the women of the realm or even the people. Maybe you should look at your precious team before you try to defame the rightful queen.

Rhaenyra and Motherhood

Motherhood is an integral part to Rhaenyra's character, both in the show and the book. So many of her actions are based on her children and her legacy is carried by her sons Aegon III and Viserys II. However, her antis are obsessed with removing motherhood from her character or claiming that she was simply a bad mother.

Rhaenyra's motivations throughout the Dance were driven by her love for her children. From the loss of Visenya fueling her desire to reclaim her throne to Joffrey's death causing her to return to Dragonstone. Even before the Dance, Rhaenyra's desire to protect her children was part of her motivation for marrying Daemon so quickly.

Despite these facts, Rhaenyra's antis always want to portray Rhaenyra as a selfish woman who doesn't care about her children and only wants power and to get laid. They blatantly ignore how Rhaenyra loves her children so completely.

Rhaenyra raised Jace to be someone even Mushroom agreed would be a great king. He was kind, intelligent, protective, a good military strategist even at fourteen, and a skilled fighter. Even though the show decided to give many of his attributes to Aemond, he's still a good man and much wiser than his older uncles. He was also respectful towards women and had a good relationship with Baela.

Lucerys was greatly loved by Rhaenyra, in the show she calls him her sweet boy. She raised Luke to be a kind and brave boy, he was respectful to Rhaena and had a sweet relationship with her. He was protective of his siblings and just wanted to make his mother proud.

Joffrey was a brave boy, perhaps too much for his own good. He wanted to defend what was left of his family, which led to his untimely death. But in life he was loved by his siblings and Rhaenyra and she was fiercely protective of him.

"Nor would she suffer to be parted from Prince Aegon, her last living son...day and night the boy remained by her side like a small pale shadow."

Even though the show hasn't yet given us any stills of Rhaenyra and Aegon the Younger, we know a lot about their relationship from the book. After the deaths of her other children, Rhaenyra held Aegon closer than ever. He grew to be a good king, despite his severe PTSD. He was firm with his advisors, stabilized the realm after the Dance, strove for peace, visited the sick, and tried to bring back dragons using magic. The only reason he isn't remembered fondly is because he wasn't happy or interested in kissing up to the lords.

Due to Viserys' age at the time of the Dance and his subsequent separation from his family, we don't know much about his relationship with Rhaenyra. But we do know that his disappearance was greatly grieved by her and that he was very close to his brother Aegon. Regardless, Viserys was a good king and such a skilled politician he was compared to Jaehaerys himself.

Visenya may have been stillborn, but she was greatly loved by Rhaenyra. Rhaenyra's only daughter, she was mourned greatly by her parents and it was her loss that helped spur Rhaenyra in her desire to reclaim her throne.

Motherhood is one of the key aspects of Rhaenyra's character. Her trauma revolving around the tragic death of her mother makes her love for her children and happiness as a mother even more compelling. She was at her happiest when she was able to live with her beloved husband and children unbothered by the Greens. She deserved to reign with her children around her. Their loss destroyed her emotionally and removed any hope Aegon and Aemond had for mercy from her or her faction.

Even though the misogyny of Westeros prevented her from being remembered as a true queen, her children are still fondly remembered. It's through them her legacy and final victory over the Greens live on, and the Green stans hate that so they try to remove her connection to her children. But their efforts are as useless as their favs, as Rhaenyra's legacy is alive and well in ASOIAF through Daenerys and their beloved usurper and his bitch mother are only remembered as war mongers and power hungry thieves.

This quote really shows just how little Condal and Hess care about adapting the actual story of the Dance. In Fire and Blood, the Dance is about a woman being usurped because of misogyny. That's it. It doesn't matter that Rhaenyra had bastards (literally no one cared other than the greens), or that she married Daemon so soon after Laenor/Laena's deaths, or that she had premarital/extramarital sex, or whatever other reasons TG stans spew out.

By taking George's story of misogyny and the harm it does and turning it into a former friends/starcrossed lovers story, Condal and Hess have completely distorted the message. Now I know they still want to have a "feminist" message, but clearly they're failing, as misogyny it thriving in the fandom and people are being more sexist towards Rhaenyra than the lords of Westeros.

One of the key parts of ASOIAF and it's related works is dismantling the harmful bigotry of the world it takes place in. That means that no, sexism and bastardphobia are not ok even though they're the norm in Westeros. That's the equivalent of arguing that rape is ok because it's considered ok by the Dothraki, Westerosi soldiers/lords, and Essosi slavers. One of the main points of F&B is the message that the conventions of Westeros and planetos are flawed and oppressive. Not that the Targaryens are the antichrist, or that misogyny is actually totally ok, or bastards are evil, or that the houses of Westeros are all great and nothing needs to change just because it's a fictional world.

HOTD has distorted the point of F&B in the name of their shitty rhaenicent fanfiction. They chose to make the issue more "complex" which misogynistic people in this fandom used to "prove" that Rhaenyra actually is evil. They claim to care about feminism and instead support the sexist narrative Rhaenyra's opponents came up with.

To summarize: Condal and Hess' obsessions with rhaenicent and making Alicent an uwu victim have destroyed the message GRRM was trying to send and undermines any "feminist" message they wanted to send.

Look at this....☠️ https://www.tumblr.com/bohemian-nights/737003196544958464/fuck-rhaenyra-fuck-the-writers-with-this-sapphic?source=share

Fucking hell.

First off: I find it interesting the anon doesn't acknowledge that Laena x Daemon is also incest. Sure, she's not his niece, but she is still related to him. They love projecting their insecurities about their ship onto daemyra.

Second: yeah, HoTD choosing to make the Velaryons black then sidelining them massively is shitty and, sure, could be interpreted as racist. However, how is that Rhaenyra's fault? She didn't make Daemon marry Laena when he couldn't have her neither did she kill Laena. Condal and Hess chose to write out Laena's relevance (which already wasn't much outside of being Daemon's wife and Baela and Rhaena's mother) in order to give Alicent more screen time. But again, that's neith Rhaenyra's nor Emma D'Arcy's fault, stop blaming them (also Emma is good at playing Rhaenyra as she is written, the only issues are the writing, which aren't their fault). Op also chose to ignore the fact that Daemon actually is confirmed by GRRM himself to have loved Rhaenyra the most.

Moving on, once again the Rhaenyra antis are bringing up how Rhaenyra isn't "feminist". Literally no one in F&B is feminist by our modern definition. Visenya and Rhaenys are probably the closest, and even then, they aren't writing feminist manifestos (which apparently Rhaenyra is expected to for some reason). Alysanne, the most proactive queen regent, still enforced arranged marriages on her daughters and granddaughters. Rhaenys didn't advocate for Laena's right of succession in the book and in the show refused to support Rhaenyra long before Laenor's "death". Her antis hold Rhaenyra to unfair and unrealistic standards while making excuses for or ignoring other characters who don't meet them.

In that same vein, I still can't get over how Rhaenyra antis will say that TG aren't the conservative group. They say Rhaenyra isn't a feminist and that TG, the ones who are obsessed with male primogeniture and believe being gay, a sexually liberated woman, a child born out of wedlock, or not adhering to the equivalent of the Catholic Church make someone subhuman are the "progressive" group. It's delusion at its finest. Alicent and the greens are misogynistic and, because of them, women's rights in Westeros ended up more repressed than ever.

The fact that the op says that Visenya and Queen Rhaena are acceptable shows they have no understanding for TG or F&B. First off, TG would never support either woman. Visenya was hated by the Faith and most of the Lord's of Westeros, she was a warrior accused of witchcraft and dared to interfere with the misogynistic customs alongside Rhaenys. Rhaena was gay, something she wasn't allowed to live fully because the Targaryens chose to conform to Westerosi ideals. She was also robbed of her inheritance, even Jaehaerys acknowledged that Rhaena was the rightful heir, just as Aegon acknowledged Rhaenyra was.

As for the racist allegations, those come exclusively from Mushroom, someone who is far from a reliable source. Mushroom invented an entire woman to try to add "spice" to Jacaerys' story: Sara Snow. A woman of whom there is no record of, even though she was raised in Winterfell and supposedly married Jace. If Mushroom is willing to make up a whole ass woman to make the story more dramatic, why should we trust anything he says?

Yes, Rhaenyra ordered Nettles' execution, but that was because of her rumored relationship with Daemon and Rhaenyra's paranoia which had grown massively since Hugh Hammer and Ulf White's betrayal. Was it just? No. Was it racially motivated? According to Mushroom, maybe, but looking at Rhaenyra's character, it doesn't make sense.

Moving on, what exactly does op mean by "she's done too many things to claim she's been wrongly framed by the narrative"? By the time Nettles comes along, Rhaenyra hasn't done much that could be considered reprehensible. Op seems to have an issue with Vaemond's death, which Rhaenyra did order in the book. They seem to think that Vaemond "rightfully called her out" and was wrongfully killed.

She ordered Vaemond's execution after he declared her sons bastards in order to challenge Corlys' decision regarding succession. Keep in mind, Vaemond in the book is Corlys' nephew, not his brother, which moves him even farther down the line of succession. Vaemond not only was putting Rhaenyra and her sons in danger but was also trying to usurp all of Corlys' line, including Baela and Rhaena, who op seems to like a lot.

Yeah Rhaenyra is much harsher in F&B, but that hardly makes her evil and irredeemable. Queens Visenya and Rhaena were both harsh and even cruel sometimes, yet op doesn't think they're irredeemable monsters.

I do agree with op's anger over the sidelining of the Velaryons, as I said earlier, but taking it out on Rhaenyra is completely uncalled for. Rhaenyra wasn't a monster, anyone who believes that has frighteningly little reading comprehension. Rhaenyra's reign would have greatly helped women's standings in Westeros and pushed along gender equality. Ignoring that fact and blatantly saying the greens aren't supporting the repressive patriarchy is delusional and idiotic. The greens' actions were damaging in every way. Vaemond was far from an innocent victim, he was power hungry and misogynistic in both the show and the book. Keep your angry focused on the right people, don't take it out on a woman who had her whole life destroyed by the patriarchy.

TG Mentality is

"Aegon is a rapist and a drunk."

"But Rhaenyra has bastards!"

"Alicent is manipulative and mean."

"But Rhaenyras has bastards!"

"Aemond is a kinslayer."

"B U T R H A E N Y R A H A S-"

It really shows TG stans' true motivations and issues with Rhaenyra. The fact that she's a woman who has chosen to fight for her rights, refuses to be a passive victim, and exercises sexual autonomy just really rubs them the wrong way. They believe that in order to be a "true woman" a character must suffer silently and prettily and work only to further the men in her life. Rhaenyra refuses to do this, so they hate her.

The Velaryon boys are just the most glaring example of how Rhaenyra has taken control of her body in spite of her circumstances. They claim she's usurping Baela and Rhaena because they can't handle that Corlys and the rest of the reapm really don't give a shit about Rhaenyra's sex life. They want to enforce the puritanical and patriarchal beliefs of the Faith on Rhaenyra and her family, and get pissed off that she isn't punished more for rebelling against that.

They obsess over the Velaryon boys because it's the only thing that could actually be condemnable by the realm other than her gender. It has nothing to do with the morality of having illegitimate children, it's about Rhaenyra being a non-conforming woman they want to see be punished.

Yeah, you are right I, too, become racist when I’m stressed. I also became racist when my twin sister died. Rhaenyra is only a victim.

Did you actually read any of my posts about Rhaenyra and Nettles? Because that's definitely not what I said lmao. I said that the sources that claim Rhaenyra said derogatory slurs about Nettles are unreliable at best.

Mushroom made up a whole ass person to make the story more dramatic. He threw in the he slept with Rhaenyra for fucks sake. Septon Eustace crowned Aegon himself and hated Rhaenyra. He wasn't even in KL when Rhaenyra took the throne.

If you're going to try to argue with me, please find actual things I said instead of twisting my words. It doesn't bode well for any of your arguments if you won't bother to find things I've actually said to debate.

(I am very sorry for your loss, though)

The Realm's Delight

The fact that the narrators of F&B were biased against Rhaenyra is a widely accepted fact by TB. Meaning that many things are twisted to defame and mock her. Something I keep thinking about is how even Rhaenyra's moniker, the Realm's Delight, is used against her.

Rhaenyra was given that title soon after her father took the throne, as she charmed lords and smallfolk alike. Later on, when Aegon is crowned, most of the smallfolk still favored Rhaenyra.

Hearing the cries, Munkun writes, some wept whilst others cheered, but most of the smallfolk stared in silence, confused and wary, and now and again a voice cried out, "Long live our queen."

After Rhaenyra declared war, lords and smallfolk alike rose to fight for her.

When Prince Daemon sent forth his call to arms, they rose up all along the rivers, knights and men-at-arms and humble peasants who yet remembered the Realm’s Delight, so beloved of her father, and the way she smiled and charmed them as she made her progress through the riverlands in her youth. Hundreds and then thousands buckled on their swordbelts and donned their mail, or grabbed a pitchfork or a hoe and a crude wooden shield, and began to make their way to Harrenhal to fight for Viserys’s little girl.

This sentiment was carried on for most of the Dance, as neither Aegon nor Aemond were loved by the smallfolk. It's only when Rhaenyra institutes a heavy tax to pay for the war effort after Aegon smuggled out the treasury, that she loses favor. Even then, the smallfolk still hated Aegon and his family.

After Rhaenyra's death, her army fought on in her and her son's names.

Though Rhaenyra was dead and Aegon the Younger was in his hands, Aegon II still had many enemies who continued to fight against him. They fought as much out of fear of his reprisals as they did for Rhaenyra, but they fought, and they proved the greater foe.

Rhaenyra was still remembered as the Realm's Delight and still had loyal men fighting for her cause. This fact is something the historians who wrote F&B tried to disparage as much as they could. They did this by using the title most synonymous with Rhaenyra to insult her.

There had been a time when she had been loved by highborn and commons alike, when they had cheered her as the Realm's Delight...though how many would still fight for her, now that she was a woman wed, her body aged and thickened by six childbirths was a question none could answer.

Because Rhaenyra was no longer a fourteen year old and had given birth six times, she was called ugly. Since, from the beginning, her worth was tied to her beauty (as it is with most women in Westeros), this called into question just how much the realm cares about her in the eyes of the men recording the Dance.

The girl they had once cheered as the Realm's Delight had grown into a grasping and vindictive woman, men said, a queen as cruel as any man before her.

Even her contemporaries used the moniker to mock her, and this was carried on by the historians. Because the name denoted how much she was loved, using it to showcase how she didn't meet the impossible expectations was the best way to make Rhaenyra appear to be a failure.

Even Rhaenyra's most endearing title was used to try to mock her. Even though the love of the realm proved true, by her enduring troops, the men who wrote about the Dance tried to take away from that significance by mocking her.

Show Criston thinking Rhaenyra would marry him after losing her virginity to him is stupid move, considering Kingsguard in the past having been killed and/or castrated for having sex like Lucamore Strong and Terrence Toyne for example. Also, feels manipulative on Criston's part, and sexist for also not considering that girls can get post-nut clarity too and won't magically bond with a guy just by sleeping with him. (Also, the fandom hate for Rhaenyra over refusing Criston's proposal reminds me of the hate Arya got for rejecting Gendry's proposal in Game of Thrones.)

Criston is infantilized just as much as the rest of TG by the fandom. He's not expected to take responsibility for his own actions and the fact that he chose to sleep with a teenager. Somehow, the fandom has decided that a teenage Rhaenyra seduced a man who is her father's age, even though only one source, who was discredited, told that story.

The show decided to go with Mushroom's telling for some reason, but even then, Criston is just as culpable. Rhaenyra was a drunk teenager who Criston had known since she was fourteen. How exactly is Rhaenyra the guilty or even morally questionable party in this scenario? He was more than capable of telling her no, he could have turned around and walked back out her door, but he didn't.

Criston wanted to be a member of the Kingsguard, he knew what the requirements and oaths entailed. He made a choice and it didn't end how he wanted. Boo fucking hoo.

People defending Criston's incel behavior is so ridiculous; reading those metas is like watching an alpha-bro podcast. He literally took Rhaenyra's rejection and used it to excuse killing an innocent man at her wedding, abuse her little children, and to try to get Aegon to assassinate her. Criston is a shitty guy in both the show and the book, end of story.

"https://www.tumblr.com/tbos-main/738719535451013120/for-the-scene-you-posted-that-is-from-the-other?source=share"

"I don't dislike Rhaenyra, I really don't. But it is BAFFLING to me that her struggles are 'I'm just a princess, I'm not even queen :(((( My life SUCKS :((('

Alicent's fans have the most mediocre opinions about Rhaenyra because they are only capable of victimizing Alicent. Also, during episode 7, when the eye incident occurs, Alicent and Rhaenyra haven't been friends for over 9 years. Alicent's only actions after the time jump are to pick on Rhaenyra and her children. Why should Rhaenyra care about Alicent? Alicent's speech in that episode is pure hypocrisy; she had already let Larys get away with murdering two people and stayed silent because it benefited her. Justice and duty can be forgotten as long as it benefits Alicent.

Alicent is also not the eternal victim that OP believes she is..

People who think Rhaenyra's struggles are "but I wanna be queen :(" really don't have good media comprehension. If we look at everyone else in HOTD the same way op is looking at Rhaenyra, then literally all of their struggles are "but I want that privilege!"

Rhaenys and Corlys want the throne or their blood to be on the throne. Viserys wants to be able to chill in his room with his figurines with no responsibility. Daemon wants to be Hand, the heir, or the prince consort. Alicent wants to chill with privilege and no responsibility at first, then wants her blood to be on the throne. Aegon wants to be prince with no responsibility or consequences. Helaena wants to chill alone with bugs and her kids. Aemond wants to be king.

Literally every person in this show wants to stay privileged but on their terms. That's not actually their issues and struggles, but if we're dumbing down Rhaenyra's story, everyone gets dumbed down too.

Rhaenyra has been demeaned and treated as less than because of her gender her entire life. She was forced into a marriage with a gay man who couldn't give her children while a majority of her worth still lay in her ability to give birth. Viserys never actually went out of his way to support her until his literal last day, he does the bare minimum to protect her or her children in court. She was abused by Alicent for a decade at least until she was driven from the capital. She was usurped, her children murdered, and was murdered by her brother. She is so much more than wanting to be queen, TG stans just hate to see that.

As for Alicent, she only cares about "duty and sacrifice" when it benefits her and/or her family. She clings to the morals of the Seven until it's her faction going against them. She's obsessed with her and Rhaenyra's former friendship until she can use it to try guilting/manipulating Rhaenyra.

In Driftmark, Rhaenyra was right on about Alicent. Alicent has been far from the saint her fans view her as and far from the martyr she thinks she herself is. She has abused Rhaenyra and supported Larys, allowed Aegon's bullying of Aemond and Criston's of the Velaryon boys.

Alicent should be asking herself where duty is and asking her faction where their sacrifice is. Rhaenyra has done her duty, she married who her father told her, she had children to be her heirs and Laenor claimed as his own as well (even though she had a lot of trauma surrounding childbirth). She has served on the small council despite how the men on the council don't respect her and Alicent constantly undermines her. Rhaenyra's only crime is refusing to sacrifice herself to serve the men around her.

Op purposefully twisting the events of the show to support their view that Alicent "always defended Rhaenyra" and "only did what she was told" is so frustrating. That view deliberately ignores that Alicent stopped defending Rhaenyra in episode five, the same episode where she chose to declare war on Rhaenyra. The ten year gap was her acting entirely independently from Otto. It also ignores how Alicent raised her children to hate Rhaenyra and her children, that's not defending Rhaenyra or doing what she's told, since Alicent had the most control over her children's lives.

Alicent isn't a perpetual victim, she's victimized by the patriarchy (show only), but quickly becomes a perpetrator of abuse and a constant supporter of the patriarchy. She sacrifices her own daughter in the name of Aegon's ascension. She hates Rhaenyra for not bending to the men around her and punishes her for it. Alicent benefits from bending to the patriarchy by second half of the season, and doesn't stop until she causes the Dance. She may work for the betterment of the men around her, but she does it of her own freewill after marrying Viserys.

The way you lot act as if Rhaenyra’s hateful comments about Nettles can’t be read as racist… did you expect Rhaenyra to call her the n-word just to be sure ?? How can that be in doubt when she basically said “she’s too darkie to be a dragon, to be worthy of a dragon or a prince” ? And dehumanizing to the point of calling her a “thing” and “creature” ?

It’s not about Valyrian features (silver hair and purple eyes). Rhaenyra has three dragon riding brown-haired and brown-eyed sons. Rhaenys had black hair. The arguments she constructed to attack Nettles were based on ideological beliefs and prejudices that were strongly founded on racism, classism and blood supremacy. Saying she was stressed because Daemon is cheating accusations is insane because Daemon had been openly having affairs before he met Nettles, but Rhaenyra didn’t cared because Mysaria’s skin is “pale as milk”.

Bozos, you’re not racist for stanning Missy Anne. We all like crazy’s in this fandom (I myself love Daemon’s crazy behind). No one cares if you stan this demented and incompetent Karen. You are racist though for denying her misogynoir, spazzing out and frothing out the mouth to cut Nettles cause the show doesn’t need anymore Black people, and trying to gaslight people into ignoring her bs as well as your own.

Why do Nettles stans never actually read my posts? You all just throw around accusations and say I wrote something that I never did. I'm not even going to try to argue with you, you won't listen to anything I'm saying anyway.

There's no reason to try to debate people who don't respect you enough to actually know what you fucking say. If you don't like Rhaenyra, cool, leave me alone though. If you have an issue with what I've said about Nettles, try bringing up something I've said.

I've never said that Rhaenyra saying slurs against Nettles isn't racist, I've said that I don't believe she actually said it to begin with. I've never said that I'm glad Nettles isn't going to be in the show, in fact I think cutting her out is stupid (though I do think her character would be butchered just like everyone else's on that shit show). Yeah, Rhaenyra ordering Nettles' execution was unjust, I've literally only ever said that her doing that stems from the paranoia and loss Rhaenyra went through. That's not the same thing as justifying what she did, but I do believe her orders had nothing to do with race and that she didn't say racial slurs.

I'm done interacting with Nettles stans, no of you bother actually addressing my arguments. You guys just accuse people you disagree with of being racist without actually knowing what they're saying. You've made up your mind about Rhaenyra, fine, but leave me the fuck alone, block me if you hate what I say so much jfc.

Watching this video essay about Yellowjackets and somehow HOTD came up and I saw the tweet and I roll my eyes so hard

Uh. Yeah. Bc she uses the faith (basically Catholicism or Christianity) to act as this pious queen when she is paying maids to keep their mouths shut about her own son raping them.

And she didn't just hang up some four pointed stars, if I remember, she REPLACED, the targs sygils with the faith of the seven stuff.

Alicent stans just love to forget her fanaticism until they can use it to make her look more pathetic. I have to say, accusing Rhaenyra of religious fanaticism is a new to me lmao. I've only ever seen people call her a godless whore, but I'm not on X, so maybe I've been spared.

Targaryen antis don't seem to grasp just how much of the Valyrian culture the Targaryens have given up for the sake of Westeros. Calling the Valyrian wedding ceremony an "arcane marriage ritual" is not only insulting to the Valyrian culture but also completely hypocritical.

Valyrian culture was steeped in magic, they themselves have magic in their blood. Is it any surprise their marriage customs would be the same? That's like expecting the Starks' ceremonies to happen separate from the Old Gods. The Targaryens have given up their gods, most of their magic, their language, and their marriage traditions. They never forced other people to follow their traditions, they never forbade following the Faith and the Old Gods, they fucking conformed as much as possible aside from the incest, which was the only way they know to preserve the last bit of Valyria's magic.

Alicent wouldn't be seen as a religious extremist if she didn't actively repress and hate other religions. She badmouths the Valyrian traditions, not just the incest, but also their love of dragons and their art. She removes all the Valyrian and Targaryen heraldry and artifacts and replaces them with the the symbols of a religion known for being intolerant and repressive.

As I said earlier, the Valyrian culture is dying out and the Targaryens have given up so much of their mother land. Removing the last pieces of someone's culture just because you follow a different religion is fucked up. Alicent isn't even the actual ruler or a Targaryen, it's not her place to choose to abandon their Valyrian heritage while her husband is too sick to interfere.

But the real issue of Alicent's actions are her motivation. She doesn't actually care about morality and her own religion, she cares about supporting Aegon and undermining Rhaenyra. That's why she criticizes Valyrian incest then turns around and forces Helaena to marry Aegon. That's why she calls Jace and Luke savages when her own son bullies his siblings constantly and later rapes women. That's why she harps on about honor and decency while actively protecting and covering up the actions of a rapist, a murderer, and a kinslayer. That's why she removes the Valyrian heraldry while Rhaenyra is gone and replaces them with the symbols of the Faith.

She's literally the definition of the hypocritical woman for Trump. She harps on and on about morals then turns around and does reprehensible things for her own gain. She complains constantly about a culture different from hers and actively tries to remove its influence. She hates people who don't conform to her ideas.

Alicent isn't a good person, period. She's a hypocrite, constantly upholds the patriarchy, sacrifices others for the sake of her interests, and is xenophobic. The efforts to take her flaws and project them on other characters, usually Rhaenyra, by her stans is ridiculous and really shows how little they actually like her character. They like her aesthetic and the idea of a perfect suffering victim.

So, the atrocities Rhaenyra committed never happened because “unreliable source” but F&B is suddenly very trustworthy when it comes to the Greens, am I right ?

Most of the stuff that Rhaenyra was claimed to have done was stuff she did. Eustace primarily looked to whitewashing Aegon II with his whole “he didn’t care until his children were threatened” BS.

Most of what she did during her half-year tenure (the taxes, the murders, the lavish feasts while her people starve, refusing to offer credible surrender terms to the Greens, etc.) cannot be mistaken as anything but her doing, with the only exception of Haelana, who may have been pushed, may have committed suicide, or may even have been murdered by Larys Strong (I doubt that though). Arguing for people who doubted the Strong bastards’ paternity to have their tongues ripped out definitely happened (and as Tyrion stated, “when you tear out a man’s tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you’re only telling the world that you fear what he might say”). Rhaenyra knew about Blood & Cheese beforehand, and never punished Daemon. Maelor’s death can’t be biased history, her Knights Inquisitor were publicly charged with finding Maelor. Ordering Lord Mooton to murder Nettles and ordering Addam Velaryon to be executed without trial was also something that definitely happened, writs of execution have paperwork.

The smallfolk of KL turned on her, and that can’t be explained away as propaganda after-the-fact, they were the ones living it. Their reactions can’t be explained away as propaganda; they slaughtered the dragons: the living symbols of Targaryen power, and justified their actions as righteous action. How can that be construed as anything but legitimately held rebellion against the very aspect of her rulership ? The heads that were placed on pikes above Maegor’s Holdfast too, are physical things that can be observed and confirmed (or disproven).

See, I don't think anyone taught you how to analyze unreliable sources. An easy way to do that is if there are other sources corroborating the story or see if the idea makes sense with the person being talked about. It's also important to consider the context of the decisions, which is analysis 101 by the way. So, since apparently holding your hand and walking you through something like I'm your fucking middle school teacher is necessary, let's go through your post.

First off, the taxes. Yes, I agree with you, the taxes are something Rhaenyra actually did, we know this because in a kingdom, tax records are always kept. This is how I know that you, much like all the Nettles stans who interact with me, have never fucking read a thing I've written. I've said that the heavy tax isn't something that's a sign of Rhaenyra being incompetent or a tyrant. It's a necessary cost of war, especially since the Greens stole the treasury, she needs money. The people did hate this and eventually riot, but, by looking at the context of the riot, it was rooted in hatred of the war, not Rhaenyra. They believed that if she took the throne, the war would be over, but it wasn't because of Aegon's cowardice. If Aegon was still on the throne, the people would have still rioted, they hated the war and blamed the monarch, end of story.

As for the beheadings, I hate to break it to you, but F&B takes place in a medieval world, meaning that beheading was the method for punishing treason. Aegon's supporters committed treason then, unlike Rhaenyra's supporters, tried to hide throughout the city. Now, am I saying that beheading your enemies and putting their heads on spikes on the walls is a good thing? No, it's something that's barbaric and cruel, however, it's no less than what Aegon did to her supporters, so condemning her for something Aegon does is extremely hypocritical and sexist. Also, it wasn't a witch hunt, Rhaenyra needed to find the treasury and Aegon in order to stop the war; was it extreme, yes, but, again, context is important. I find it interesting that you condemn the taxes she levied while also condemning her attempts to end the reason for the taxes, could it be you just hate Rhaenyra and are looking for any reason to shit on her?

Now we're getting into something that requires a little critical thinking, which I know is hard for you: the feasting. The only source that says Rhaenyra held feasts while she was in KL is Septon Eustace. Let's look at Eustace really quickly; he's the man who crowned Aegon and is known by the in-universe writers of F&B to be unreliable, he also wasn't in KL when Rhaenyra was ruling. So, if the maesters who wrote the sources F&B drew from deem him to be unreliable and he wasn't present during her reign, does that make Eustace a trustworthy source? And if the many courtiers who were in KL and weren't fans of Rhaenyra didn't corroborate this rumor, is it likely to be true? The answer to both of these is no. Eustace claiming Rhaenyra feasted during her time in KL is 99% a lie, and that other 1% would refer to the fact that nobles always ate better than their people.

Now, I have another question for you anon, I do hope you'll consider it. Would you offer mercy to the man responsible for the deaths of all but two of your children, your husband, your ex mother-in-law who acted as your surrogate mother, began a war based on your gender, and wanted to kill you and your remaining children? Unless you are literally a saint, the answer is, no, you wouldn't be inclined to offer that person "credible surrender terms". I think you're just referring to when Rhaenyra refused to split the kingdom between her and Aegon as well as refused to spare his life if she caught him while she was in KL. How exactly is throwing the kingdom into a shit storm by splitting it in half, despite the fact that a majority of the lords supported Rhaenyra, "credible terms"? It's not, it's fucking entitled and ridiculous, of course Rhaenyra rejected that audacious idea. Also, Aegon refused to surrender in any way, in fact he was more determined than ever to keep the war going (even after Rhaenyra was murdered, he kept fighting), what's the point of offering peace terms if they're going to be rejected again? She already offered very merciful terms at the beginning of the war.

"As for my half-brothers and my sweet sister, Helaena," she announced, "they have been led astray by the counsel of evil men. Let them come to Dragonstone, bend the knee, and ask my forgiveness, and I shall gladly spare their lives and take them back into my heart, for they are of my own blood, and no man or woman is as accursed as the kinslayer." (Fire and Blood: The Dying of the Dragons - the Blacks and the Greens)

Keep in mind, this is an official decree by Rhaenyra, terms delivered to Aegon and his council, meaning they were recorded and had official documentation. So not only are you not using any critical thinking, you're flat out lying and making shit up to try and support your argument.

Now, moving on to Rhaenyra's sons, her wanting people who are committing treason to be punished how the king decreed isn't an outlandish or unreasonable expectation. Jace, Luke, and Joff were declared the legitimate sons of Laenor by Viserys, Corlys, and Laenor himself, making them (at the very least adopted) Velaryons. Are you saying that people who are adopted are undeserving of inheritance just because of their blood? That's not even a medieval idea, since adopted heirs has been a custom since the Ancient Romans. Moving on, Viserys was the one who declared the punishment for the treason of questioning the boys' legitimacy, not Rhaenyra. There's also the fact that no one outside of the Greens cared about whether the boys were Laenor's blood or not, they are recorded by everyone, including Eustace himself, as true Velaryons. I'm not even going to address the Tyrion quote, since you clearly don't actually care about accuracy or literally any of the messages in ASOIAF.

Continuing your trend of blatantly making shit up, there's no evidence that Rhaenyra knew about B&C. All we have is Daemon's letter to her, which only said that Luke would be avenged, something which could be accomplished through taking her throne and executing Aemond. In fact, that's the most likely conclusion to be drawn from such a vague letter.

As for Maelor, Rhaenyra did order her knights to find him, as having Aegon's last child could motivate him to surrender. However, she didn't order him to be executed, that was clearly an example of how war twists people and drives them to atrocities. Rhaenyra offered a reward for his return, meaning she wanted him alive, it's not her fault that a mob tore him to pieces. Her people came to break up the mob, but they were too late, so they executed the people responsible. Rhaenyra gave Maelor's remains a Targaryen funeral, something Aegon and Aemond didn't bother giving to her children.

Rhaenyra ordering Nettles' and Addam's executions are actions that I don't defend and never have. Those are signs of how Rhaenyra is another gray character, a woman driven to intense paranoia and making unjust and harmful decisions. This makes her a gray protagonist, not an unredeemable villain, as you and her other antis seem to believe. If you guys want all good protagonists, maybe read a differen book series.

As I said earlier, the revolt of the KL smallfolk weren't against Rhaenyra herself, it was against the war. They killed the dragons because they were being led by a man who took their discontent and used it to support his religious fanaticism. The Shepherd wasn't preaching against Rhaenyra, he was preaching against the Targaryens, including Aegon. That's why they killed all the dragons they could, not just Rhaenyra's, they killed Jaehaera and Helaena's dragons, how is that an act just against Rhaenyra?

TG stans and Rhaenyra antis' arguments are driven solely by a lack of critical thinking, willful ignorance, and twisting of passages. You either have issues that aren't actually supported by the narrative or simply apply double standards to Rhaenyra while supporting other characters who do the same or worse. You seem to think that this ask was a "gotcha" moment, however, you have simply shown how even the Rhaenyra antis who have read the book lack critical thinking and don't understand how unreliable sources work. Have a good day/night anon, I do hope you'll eventually learn how to use logic and your critical thinking, I'm sure you can do it.

Rhaenyra's Victory

The "nobody won the Dance" argument is so ridiculous and just flat out wrong. Certain fans (read TG stans), constantly argue that, because Rhaenyra and Aegon both died, the Dance had no victor. GRRM clearly disputes this in both F&B and ASOIAF.

In F&B, the end of the Dance is clearly in favor of the Blacks, despite Rhaenyra's murder. Cregan Stark and the rest of the Black forces took KL, forced the last of the Green supporters to surrender, and placed Aegon III (Rhaenyra's oldest surviving child) on the throne. After that, the last of Aegon II's line died with Jaehaera, leaving Rhaenyra's as the only legitimate and surviving royal line. That means, in simple terms, Rhaenyra's family won the war. They were the survivors of the war and ruled for the rest of the Targaryen Dynasty.

Speaking of the rest of the dynasty, there's a second way GRRM makes Rhaenyra's victory clear, and that's through Daenerys Targaryen. Despite the Blacks winning the final conflict of the Dance, male primogeniture was accepted and reinforced throughout the following kings' reigns. Baela and Rhaena were passed over as options to be Aegon III's heirs before his marriage to Daenaera. Daena and her sisters were passed over in favor of Viserys II and his children. Vaella was dismissed in favor of Aegon V. The first woman to be named heir to the IT since Rhaenyra was Dany, something done purely because she was Viserys III's final surviving relative (no, the relatives in other houses don't count).

No matter the reason Dany was named as heir, she eventually succeeded her brother as the head of House Targaryen and the rightful ruler of Westeros. After becoming the head of the house, she awoke dragons from stone and became Khaleesi of her own Khalasar. Dany then began a conquest across Slaver's Bay and eventually conquered Meereen and became its queen. Thus she became a conqueror and queen in her own right.

Despite House Targaryen embracing the sexist Andal traditions about succession, the future of the house now rests on the shoulders of a woman. Dany is the final ruler belonging to the house, a queen regnant who overcame every man who stood in her way. Not only that, but she awakened dragons from stone, thus beginning to heal the damage done by the Dance and the greens' misogyny.

Dany, a woman, is the savior of House Targaryen and arguably one of its most powerful rulers to date. She not only is continuing its legacy, but is bettering it. Rhaenyra's legacy is her female descendant who will save not only the house but the whole goddamn world. Dany enacts radical social change in Essos, rules her city well (as much as she can with the slavers' interference), and brought dragons, the key to defeating the Others, back into the world. Daenerys is Rhaenyra's final victory over the greens' misogyny and treason.

TG stans loves to mock the targaryen blood with babies that are born looking like dragons just like visenya for example when they have jaehaerys with 6 fingers (which in the book the green are ashamed of that btw) and from jaehaera's sigil in the opening of the series it is also a hand with six fingers just like his brother's lol I don't know if they just have the same sigil because they are twins but it would be funny if the girl had the same problem as her brother after all... they are twins LOL

TG stans are majority Targaryen antis. They want to distance their favs from the rest of the Targaryens so their hypocrisy is less obvious. So they'll write posts calling the blacks incestuous dragonspawn while blatantly ignoring that the greens are every bit as incestuous.

Aegon and Helaena are siblings, like you can't get more incestuous than that. Daemyra's kids actually have less genetically similar parents than Jaehaerys, Jaehaera, and Maelor. Rhaenyra's parents were first cousins, something not acknowledged as incest by Westeros.

Then there's the Helaemond shippers who criticize the Velaryons' legitimacy while theorizing that Helaena's kids are Aemond's. How exactly is Jace succeeding Rhaenyra wrong but Jaehaera succeeding Aegon is good? How is Jaehaera a more legitimate heir than Aegon III (who is trueborn)? These people are still in the same camp as other TG stans who hate the blacks for incest. They ship a brother and sister, wtf is happening in their brains?

Joffrey Baratheon and his siblings are talked about more respectfully than Rhaenyra and her children. It's so disgusting how this woman and her children are being called subhuman by these hypocrites.

The TG stans hate House Targaryen (most of them anyway), it takes a lot of mental gymnastics to justify liking the greens. It's insane seeing them do that, but it's also so fucking frustrating. They don't seem to realize that TG are the most cartoonishly evil Targaryens in ASOIAF who are all guilty of the things they hate the house for.

It shows the true reason they support the greens. It's not about how "cool" they are, because there's a lot of Targaryens who are "cool" in the same way but are still hated. It's not because they're interesting villains, because they bend over backwards defending them. It's not about hating feudalism or caring about the smallfolk, the greens committed worse atrocities than the blacks and were hated by the smallfolk more. It's not about being morally against incest (in a fictional world for some reason), because they love the incest of their favs. It's about misogyny, it's about not wanting a woman to inherit the throne or have agency in her story.

I feel like this poster doesn't understand how generalizations work in analysis. TB stans say that TG hates the Targaryens and Dany because most TG stans hate them. That doesn't mean every single one of you hate them (although it's baffling to me why you love TG while loving Dany). If what we say doesn't apply to you, then we're not fucking talking about you! Why is that such a difficult concept to grasp?

Also this poster apparently doesn't understand basic genetics. Aegon, Aemond, Helaena, and Daeron are all half Targaryen. Jace, Luke, and Joffrey are also all half Targaryen. TG stans using the Velaryons' paternity and legitimacy as a gotcha is such a tired and baseless argument. It's just utilizing bastardphobia, misogyny, and blood purity (something the Targaryens are criticized for).

If op sees this, you confuse me, so much. Dany would hate the greens. They're misogynists, Dany fights against men's disdain for her gender constantly. Aegon's a rapist, Dany hates rape and rapists (obviously). The greens massacred hundreds of innocents, something Dany vehemently is against. Finally, the greens are usurpers, Dany's family has been usurped, supporting the greens would be like supporting Robert Baratheon.

TG stans, no matter if they love Dany/the Targaryens, are always ridiculous. Their hatred of Rhaenyra and her family just blinds them to everything. TG stans are one of the most annoying and insufferable groups in this fandom and every time I come across one of their posts I lose a year off my life.

https://www.tumblr.com/crushingthebroken/741170379192745984/the-fact-ryan-condal-keeps-hitting-with-the?source=share

I think there is a lot of bias in this analysis, what is your opinion?

Yes, there's definitely a lot of bias here; op is so clearly a pissy TG stan. This analysis is rife with observation bias and just plain misinformation. I do sympathize with some of their points though. Op is doing something I've seen a lot of TG stans do: projecting the issues in HOTD onto Rhaenyra.

HOTD is a pretty bad adaptation, full of inconsistent characters and just plain fucking up the characterizations of the people. The Velaryons definitely suffer more than most other characters from this. They made Rhaenys rather antagonistic to Rhaenyra, turned Laena into basically nothing, made Laenor a deadbeat dad, and Corlys is just kinda there.

However, op's complaints about the Velaryons' representation show their bias very obviously. They don't complain about Rhaenys' characterization until she's supporting Rhaenyra. They don't talk about the issues Laenor's running away brings in, just about how it makes the Velaryons' support of the Blacks confusing. They complain about Corlys not being hated for offering Laena to Viserys, but don't acknowledge how the show purposely aged Laena down to younger than Rhaenyra to make Corlys look worse. The most damning however, is how they complain about how Corlys didn't care about Vaemond's death.

Vaemond is killed both in the book and the show, both times because he was slandering Rhaenyra and calling her sons bastards. Daemon kills him both times (with Rhaenyra's approval in the book, which was a slay tbh). Corlys doesn't care in either occurrence because Vaemond was attempting to usurp Corlys' line and his chosen successors. Op choosing to ignore the actual truth of the situation shows they just hate Rhaenyra and are bitter HOTD didn't go all the way with making the Velaryons disloyal to her.

Moving on to their complaints about Rhaenyra's portrayal, another thing I agree with to an extent. HOTD made Rhaenyra into a much more passive character than she actually was. They made her virtually inactive politically, removed her approval of Vaemond's execution, and made it so she was unwilling to go to war until Luke's murder. They showed their benevolent misogyny. However, op isn't angry about the sexism of this portrayal or how they nerfed an interesting and fun character, rather about how she does fewer morally ambiguous and questionable things. They're upset that HOTD made it harder to say Rhaenyra is an evil bitch without revealing the misogyny of TG.

Op also complains about how HOTD doesn't condemn Daemon enough while actually portraying how awful Aegon, Criston, and Vaemond are. This shows how op isn't actually using media literacy. Condal and Hess constantly condemn Daemon and went out of their way to make him worse than he is in the book. Daemon didn't murder Rhea or abuse Rhaenyra in the book, those are things they added to make him look worse. Meanwhile they actively defend Aegon raping women and go out of their way to make him more "sympathetic".

Op also sympathizes with Criston, because apparently him being held accountable for his own decisions is wrong. He chose to sleep with Rhaenyra, he chose to murder Joffrey, he chose to dedicate the rest of his life to ruining hers. Criston isn't a good person, he isn't a victim, he made all his choices and can't accept the consequences of them.

Op also reveals how they are very anti Valyrian by throwing in a spiel about how Daemon is a neo-nazi and the Valyrians are fundamentally evil for utilizing slavery. Yes, slavery is abominable, however, criticizing Daemon and Rhaenyra for wanting to hold onto their cultural traditions that have nothing to do with slavery or human exploitation isn't wrong. If every person was expected to abandon their culture just because the culture has morally wrong practices, no person could ever hold onto their culture. This applies to the other cultures of AWOIAF, including TG's precious Andals who tried to literally murder any religion other than the Faith. Daemon valuing his culture is the least condemnable thing he's ever done.

Op also complains about how Otto is portrayed as being an awful person. I have to say, a TG stan wanting to defend Otto is new to me, but not very surprising. Of course Otto is portrayed as bad and the head of the greens, they took away all of Alicent's agency and had to give it to someone. Otto is a raging misogynist and only cares about power, that's all there is to him, but apparently he's more sympathetic than Rhaenyra for some reason.

In conclusion anon, yes, this is an extremely biased "analysis". Op hates Rhaenyra and is upset that Condal and Hess didn't go out of their way to make her the primary antagonist of the show. Apparently it isn't enough that they outright defend a rapist and made the Velaryons completely nonsensical. TG stans are ridiculous and are driven purely by hatred of Rhaenyra and/or House Targaryen, op is no exception.

The ASOIAF fandom is so funny about discourse; both in topics and reactions. The other main fandom I frequent on Tumblr is Tolkien, and the difference is remarkable.

For instance, in the story of the Fall of Numenor, there's a story about the usurpation of a woman that leads to tragedy. I'm talking, of course, about Tar-Míriel. She was the rightful queen of Numenor, but was usurped by her cousin Ar-Pharazôn, who caused the destruction of Numenor.

There is not a single person in the Tolken fandom who argues that Ar-Pharazôn was in the right, was actually a good person, or that Tar-Míriel deserved to be usurped. Granted, the story isn't actually the same as that of the Dance, but the bare bones are pretty similar.

Tar-Míriel isn't a morally gray character like Rhaenyra, in fact we know very little about her, but the parts we do know are good. However, both Rhaenyra and Tar-Míriel were declared their fathers' heirs despite the existence of close male relatives. They were both usurped and ultimately killed (Míriel indirectly) by a male relative.

Ar-Pharazôn and Aegon II are both written as almost cartoonishly evil. They both were horrible rulers and warmongers. Their reigns caused massive tragedies; Aegon II and his faction caused the deaths of the dragons and Ar-Pharazôn's actions caused Iluvatar to destroy Numenor.

Now, I'm not saying that these two stories are meant to be connected or paralleled, they simple capture a similar story pattern rooted in history. My point is that the ASOIAF fandom has a major issue.

The greens are not secretly heroes, good people, or morally superior to the blacks in any way, shape, or form. The obsession of the ASOIAF fandom to turn them into more "sympathetic" characters is ridiculous. Fandoms like the Tolkien one are able to embrace a character being a villain without trying to turn them into a hero.

It's so frustrating because this obsession with making the greens into protagonists damages fandom discourse. It's turned the Dance into a cheap "choose your team" issue, rather than a story of the damage of misogyny, the patriarchy, and warring lords. The arguments over which team is right is absurd and creates a space were misogyny is fostered and encouraged (even some TB fans)

I know, a majority of my posts are complaining about TG and their stans, so I'm guilty of perpetuating the cycle. But there's a difference between analysis of a character and arguing with people's rotten takes and just reducing the story to team discourse; I try my best to avoid the latter.

I'm sure a large part of this issue can be traced to HOTD, but I think it's indicative of deeper problem in the fandom. People reduce the issues in the main books to "who's gonna take the throne" rather than actually addressing things. They're so comfortable spouting misogyny in regards to Daenerys and Arya. The ASOIAF fandom has deeper issues that are being exacerbated by the writing decisions of HOTD and, before that, GOT.