Maugris - Tumblr Posts
How old is Maugris? (Part 1/???)
Ok because I really want to know now. I just went back through Golden Tower and we’re never really given many specific dates for well…anything. We don’t know when maugris body hops, we don’t know when Constantine starts at the magisterium, we don’t even know a specific year for the original war with Constantine. There’s not even anything on the cold massacre, but I think that if we’re trying to build a timeline here, that’s what we have to base it off. I think that’s the closest we’re going to get to concrete, because we know generally where it belongs in the timeline and also generally when it takes place based off of Call’s age.
Since we know that Call is 12 in the Iron Trial, and we know the Iron Trial takes place in 2014 (see https://tmisource.com/2014/11/23/exclusive-cassandra-clare-and-holly-black-talk-about-the-iron-trial-diversity-and-a-bat-part-two/)
then we can do some easy subtraction and figure out that the cold massacre has to take place sometime in 2002. Adding to that, Call is older than Tamara, so it has to have been early in 2002. Looking at North Carolina school cutoff dates, we can surmise that Tamara would be in the later half of 2002, just before August 31st. (She is mentioned to be sixteen in The Golden Tower, through the time clue thing from Raven.)
This means that for Call to have been an infant during the cold massacre, it would have to occur early in 2002. Looking at weather patterns in La Rinconada, the cold massacre was likely anywhere from May to August, because those are the cold months there and I’m assuming because of the ice and cold descriptions from the prologue that it’s colder than like 40 degrees (Fahrenheit). (In the report I read, it was also mentioned that from January—December (excepting May—August) there is lots of rainfall, and since there’s only mention of snow and ice that also leads me to May—August) So if the cold massacre is May—August 2002, which Call is an infant for, he had to have been born somewhere between January—April. My personal guess is January—March, as that gives Call enough time to grow a little to not be literally born yesterday by the time of the cold massacre. (Also, I did check for an official birth date for Call—there isn’t one. Unless it was said somewhere in an interview that I haven’t found. For some reason I always thought it was September but that wouldn’t make sense with his age in Golden Tower—which was 17. If he were born AFTER August 31st, he would be in the grade below. And he can’t be born in 2001 because then he would be 18 by the end of Golden Tower. Which he can’t be because then he would be in the grade above and already graduated. Unless he repeated a grade which we have no reason to think based on the text.)
So why is this important for Maugris? Well, the Cold Massacre is when he body hopped into Call from Constantine, so that tells us he spent 17 years in Call’s body and only a couple in Constantine’s. In Golden Tower, when Call opens up the memories he had locked away, we find out that Maugris never body hopped into children—Call was the first. So that means all his victims would’ve been at least 18—but I think it’s fair to push that number even higher. For Constantine, I think he would’ve been around 18 when Maugris switched meat sacks. Call had described Constantine as “Already pretty evil” by the time of the switch, and that gives him 4 years between the time Jericho died and the cold massacre to build up his power and really start the war. We know he left the Magisterium after Jericho’s death when they were 14, but we don’t know how long after. I’d give it one or two years, so I’d say when he left Constantine was around 15/16. (I say one or two years because he got caught experimenting. I think he would’ve already had to have been trying and researching to create the chaos ridden, and that likely took a while even with master Joseph. No way in hell was Maugris revealing anything even close to what he did to an apprentice, so they were likely building from the ground up.)
During the cold massacre, Alastair would’ve been 21/22, so that means that when Maugris jumped from Constantine to Call, he would’ve been around the same age. (If you’re interested in that number, I just subtracted Alastair’s age at the end of the series with Call’s.)
So that gives Maugris a solid three or four years as Constantine.
So, as Constantine and Call combined, Maugris had lived a total of 20/21 years.
I’m gonna go back even further but this post is getting really long and I don’t have The Silver Mask with me right now to for sure double check those last few numbers—so give or take a few years there. Once I’ve checked the silver mask and cross referenced with the golden tower I’ll make another post.
Part 2 Part 3
tryna. tryna do the math to see when maugris would’ve lived ?? if he meat hopped 17 times and each body lived to be about 25-30, he would been born 1490s-1500s??? someone fact check me i’m bad at math
Yall got me going down the Maugris rabbit hole. I just wish this bitch was MORE SPECIFIC PLEASE. MAGIC MEAT MOLESTER OVER HERE GIVES THE VAGUEST DESCRIPTIONS POSSIBLE. LIKE WTF U MEAN ELEMENTALS ARE GONNA DROWN US WHAT IS THIS THE TITANIC????
Maugrisssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
How old is Maugris? (Part 2/???)
So Constantine feels like an exception to me. Maugris’s idea of what an “Adult” would have been was 100% definitely affected by the time he was originally from. That could mean he could see an adult as someone who’s like 14. But the reason why I still think it’s not anyone under 18 is because of the simple fact that when Maugris started all of this, *he* was under 18. Or, at the oldest, in his early 20s. In Golden Tower, in the flashback scene from Maugris’s POV when he’s still OG meat sack, it’s consistently referenced that he is young, that he is sick. That he resented Master Janusz, who was described as a “man in his prime.” He’s dying before he’s even reached said prime. Also, the consistent references to the magisterium itself, and what he “…could have been…” leads me to believe that he was young, maybe just graduated even. I think this would’ve given him an aversion to younger bodies, but someone who’s just a little older, in maybe their thirties, would appeal to him. I think, weird as it might seem, he would’ve found more security in taking bodies older than his when he died because they would feel more safe. After all, when you’re young anything could happen, but when you’re older, have already made it to a certain point in life…
I’m getting a little ahead of myself, but I think his general line of thinking was that someone older was less likely to get a spontaneous illness like he did (even if that’s not necessarily true. Actually, the opposite seems more likely. I think it boils down to his resentment and trauma.) Also, it would give him way more freedom to move if he was consistently seen as a respected master. After that first time, he chose his victims deliberately.
Our next reference for age is Master Joseph. While he also has no official age, I think I can make a guess. He’s older than Alastair and Constantine by AT LEAST 9 years. (9 years because we don’t actually know what the requirements to work as a master at the magisterium are. I’m assuming it’s going off the standard four year teaching degree, which means that if he graduates the magisterium at 17, then he has to be at least 21 to work at the Magisterium.) I think he has to be greater than 9 years older though, because he is being allowed to teach a Makar (Constantine.) this is mostly guesswork, but if he has to be older than Constantine and Alastair and has to have some tenure by the time they are old enough to go to the Magisterium, I’d give it a solid ten years between when he starts working at the Magisterium and when Constantine and Alastair take their iron trial. That would put him at 31 when they are 12. If Alastair is 35 in the iron trial, that would make Joseph 54.
Now you may be asking, how is this at all relevant to Maugris?
IM GLAD YOU ASKED.
When going back through Golden Tower, I found that our favorite corrupt carcass calamity was the mentor to Jesus-Christ-how-many-secret-kids-can-you-have Joseph. Which. I feel like I should’ve remembered but I didn’t.
Anyway, the important part here is we can use the exact same math I just did up there for good ol’ Joseph’s age again to figure out how long he was in unnamed woman’s body. It’s not spelled out in cannon, but it is implied that unnamed lady was also a master of the magisterium—for one, she was Joseph’s mentor, how else would he meet her? Maugris mentions teaching him in the flashbacks, though I can’t remember the exact wording right now. For two, literally what better way is there to find another makar to jump into than where he can directly influence and befriend them?
When Maugris is creeping on Constantine and planning to make the jump, it’s mentioned that the body he’s in could still be used for a decade or three. This lines up solidly with putting the body at around age 70. I’d put this woman as slightly older than Joseph when she got her start at the magisterium because she had to have time to come to the U.S. from Europe (WHICH I WILL GET TO IN THE NEXT PART). So I’d say she’s like around 25–30 when she starts there (which oh what do you know puts her in prime body stealing range). If she’s 30 when she starts as a master at the magisterium, then that makes Joseph 11/12 at the same time. (Give or take a few years. Joseph wasn’t a makar, so I don’t think she would need a tenure to teach him. Plus, she would already have the degree and a couple years’ experience at this point.) If she’s closer to 25 when he steals her body and is thirty when Joseph is 12, that makes her 72 when he’s 54. This means that Maugris has been in her body for 37 years. (Accounting for 5 years from when he steals it before she works at the magisterium. That’s more guesswork on my part though, so give or take a few there.)
Or it would’ve been, if she wasn’t dead at that point.
Yea, I forgot she died before the cold massacre so we actually have to take off 16 years (she would’ve been 72 at the time of Call’s iron trial, take off 12 years to reach the cold massacre and then 4 more as that’s when Constantine got jumped into) because if we follow the math from when Constantine’s body was taken and when the Cold Massacre would’ve happened, we end up with the woman being 56 when Maugris would’ve jumped out. ( the reason 56 is plausible with the a decade or three thing that he mentions is that he likely would not want to wait around for a body in their 90s to die. Makes way more sense to find someone to jump to earlier than that, meaning less use time.) That tells us that he was in there for a solid 31/32 years.
So, between this woman, Constantine, and Call, Maugris had 52 years of body stealing.
This leaves us with a year of 1966 so far.
TIMELINE:
-Cold Massacre in 2002
-Constantine gets a soul replacement in 1998
-woman gets her body stolen in 1966
YEARS OF BODY STEALING( SO FAR)
~52
Part 1 Part 3
tryna. tryna do the math to see when maugris would’ve lived ?? if he meat hopped 17 times and each body lived to be about 25-30, he would been born 1490s-1500s??? someone fact check me i’m bad at math
Ok now I’m just imagining where Maugris was for every single historical event. Like the world’s worst game of where’s waldo.
Match Maugris.
Can’t forget Maugris. Because of him, almost all the known makars were trans
(Maugris as a gender fluid icon is a hill I will DIE on FIGHT ME)
aaron stewart, the token white (?) cis boy
I think what makes me so mad about the golden tower is the execution. The Maugris reveal could’ve been great and it just wasn’t. But I don’t think that in and of itself it’s a bad twist. Imagine that, instead of the reveal we got, we got the Constantine reveal at the beginning of the series, and then little inklings that something isn’t right. Maybe some weird soul shit idk. Just a steady reveal of what is possible through Makar lessons and inconsistencies in the story of what happened during the switch between Call and Constantine. I think that it was presented as two separate twists, and the problem with that is that it’s basically the same thing twice. If it were treated as one twist, as one cohesive thing that is slowly revealed, I think it would be so much more satisfying and people would like it more.
FUCK YEA JUST HAD A BREAKTHROUGH IN THE TIMELINE—THINGS WERE LOOKING PRETTY IMPOSSIBLE FOR A BIT.
When you think abt it, it’s really hard to know exactly what crimes were Constantine and what were Maugris.
Sup sorry I just disappeared for a couple days yall im back. Third part of the timeline should come out today or tomorrow
Update: may actually have been the titanic
Maugrisssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
Part three is going to be the longest so far
How old is Maugris (part 3/???)
The woman I mentioned before is likely European. I think this for a number of reasons, one of which being she is a makar who is deliberately hiding her gifts. Joseph never once suspected what she was, and Maugris didn’t jump into children, so he couldn’t have been making the choice to hide it. And why would she hide it in the U.S? It’s celebrated, there wouldn’t really be a reason to. You could say to avoid fighting, but The Enemy didn’t exist yet, and there hadn’t been any notable evil makars for a couple generations because Maugris was laying low. A likely explanation is the European ban on Makars. This is actually really helpful because it tells us when Maugris left Europe and came to the U.S. It had to have been AFTER 1966, and if we’re using the five year gap logic from before with her age, that would put Maugris leaving Europe at around 1971.
Now, this is where things get…messy.
All we know about the past lives after that woman is that
(1) Maugris was laying low. This actually is an important detail because it tells us a lot about the life prior to “laying low” lives. This is a guess, but based off of maugris’s character it seems likely that he wouldn’t just decide to lay off the evil for a while. I mean, this guy had literally no qualms about consistently murdering innocents. That means that for him to just stop for a while, the last “evil” life he had had to have made a huge impact. This significantly narrows down what “Several Generations” can mean. (Note: I think that these ‘breaks’ were not common for him. He started all this when he was young and probably didn’t figure out about the take a break thing for a while.)
And
(2) Maugris’s known, documented lives are generally focused on the evil ones. We don’t really get names for anything else, so what we need to figure out is how often he reaches extremes that would force him to take a break from evil doing. To do this, we need to find which life came directly before the laying low ones, or how many evil lives he’s lived and figure out the proportions compared to normal lives he’s lived.
Thankfully, we do have actual text confirming a number. (For once.)
In Golden Tower, at the bottom of page 154, Call says he’s been 17 different evil mages, and Aaron helpfully corrects that number to 18.
“‘…Even though I’ve been seventeen different evil mages.’
‘Eighteen,’ said Aaron. ‘But who’s counting?’”
This specific quote is very important, not just because it holds one of the only concrete numbers in this series, but also because of the specification. Notice that Call doesn’t say he’s been 17 different mages, but that he’s been 17 different *evil* mages. An important distinction, because it tells us whether Call is being counted or not. If he *were* being counted, Aaron’s correction would consist of one less life, not one more. Throughout the entire book, Aaron is in Call’s head trying to convince him that he’s not evil, what Maugris did doesn’t reflect on him. It wouldn’t make sense for him to be saying this constantly and then undermine his own point later with that comment. Plus, he’s been in Call’s head for months at this point, he’s seen the amount he’s struggled because of being labeled “evil.” Even if he knew Call would be okay with it, it just…doesn’t strike me as something he would do. So, Call is not being counted. (And also, if Aaron’s correction counted Call, he’d say 19. If he were counting Call, there would still be a missed life. Of course, Aaron’s correction could just be in reference to just Call, but I’ve already went over why I don’t think that. You could say it was just a joke and these numbers don’t even matter, but the correction of 18 proves it’s not just a casual comment—if it’s just a joke with no truth to it, why correct it at all? And why specifically with 18? I think that 18 is the actual number, and it would make sense for him to know and not Call—he was kinda busy being bombarded with memories to accurately count, it makes sense he would miss one.)
So 18 lives, not including Call.
Based off of the flashbacks and names Call yells during them, 9 of those lives were spent evil overlording. That leaves the remaining 9 to be in-between years (and also the woman.) So, of the named generations, nine of them were spent being actively evil and one of them was a rest generation. The remaining 8 generations were also likely rest ones. Our creepy carcass connoisseur really got around.
Before I move on, I think it’s important to note that while Aaron separated out Call from the number of “evil mages” Maugris was, it’s unlikely he did the same for the rest generations. This is because of his personal connection to Call, and the unique circumstances surrounding his swap. Call is, for all purposes, a functionally different person than Maugris, even though they share the same soul. It wouldn’t have been like that for the lives he laid low in, and it didn’t mean that he wasn’t still being actively evil and scheming in those years, it just meant he was being more on the down-low about it.
Now that we’ve established there were nine evil lives and nine rest generations, we can begin to try to put together some semblance of an order.
We know that for several generations (including the woman’s life) prior to Constantine was a rest life. I think that for these rest generations to be at all effective, they would have to last AT LEAST three lifetimes. Why? Because for the idea to even work, you would need all those with first hand accounts to die off. From the number of rest years, and the fact that at least three would be needed for each time he skipped, I think it’s likely he only did the breaks like two, maybe three times, at most. (Personally, I think it was two (I’ll explain why in a later part) but that’s up for interpretation.) That significantly narrows down unaccounted for time, and gives us a clearer picture of when some of those evil lives had to take place.
We know that before the woman, there were “several generations” of laying low. This is where I’m going to put four of the rest generations. (Yes, the other five have a place, I just haven’t gotten there yet. And yes, splitting it unevenly WAS intentional. There’s a reason four go here.) and then one evil life.
From here, I looked up average life expectancies from the sixties back.
The term “generations” can mean different things depending on life expectancy. A generation today is expected to live longer than generations from the early 1900s, so we have to take into account how long a body he took would be able to live. If he was taking bodies in their 20s or 30s, the amount of time he could spend there before the body died off would be greatly reduced. Since there is no way to really tell for which generations he was which gender, I’m going to use the male estimate when numbers vary by only 1 or two years. When estimates vary for larger amounts of time, I’m going to average those estimates.
In the 1960s, lifespan for men and woman combined was about 66 years. If Maugris took over a body at 30 and left at the average life span, he would’ve been in that body for a total of 36 years. Subtract the established 1966 by 36 and we get another body hop occurring around 1930. In 1930, the average lifespan was around 43, meaning Maugris would’ve been in that body for about 18 years. As we get further back, I think Maugris would’ve entered bodies younger due to less life expectancy. So, instead of 30 being point of entry from here on I’m going to use 25. 18 years back from 1930 was 1912.
¡WARNING! CRAZY CONSPIRACY RANT BELOW
1912 I say??? WELL YOU KNOW WHAT ELSE HAPPENED IN 1912!?! THE FUCKING TITANIC. TIME TO FINALLY REACH ONE OF MY LONGEST HELD HEAD CANONS ABOUT THIS MAN.
Maugris is a meat hopper, we all know that. He could be anything or anyone at any time. I could be Maugris. You could be Maugris. YOUR CAT COULD BE MAUGRIS. WE ARE ALL MAUGRIS.
When I read the Golden Tower the first time, I ran across the scene where Maugris is standing on a sinking boat and there’s elementals in the sea. This immediately set my crazy conspiracy senses tingling. I wasn’t until I read the scene again that things finally clicked for me. The titanic. It just gave titanic, and once the thought was there it just wouldn’t leave. Like an annoying fly, constantly buzzing around my head. I tried to disprove it. There’s mentions of an armada burning in the background. The Titanic is kinda notorious for sinking via iceberg.
But.
There are many theories that before the ship even set sail, that there was a coal fire on it. If there was one, doesn’t that make it possible for there to be another?
No, I thought. No.
It very clearly sank via iceberg. Also, there were no other ships around (at least, not ones that could be considered a part of any type of armada.)
And yet.
Maugris was in Europe at the time, so it’s not crazy to believe he may have heard about a supposedly invincible ship. Maugris liked invincible things. He thought *he* was invincible. Plus, according to my math, he body hopped in 1912. Was he on the boat and then body hopped into someone who got off?
Possibly.
Is there any canon backing for this?
Not really.
Do I choose to believe this because the mental image of Maugris trying to fit on Rose’s door makes me laugh?
Yes.
Do with that what you will.
END RANT
In 1910, the average life expectancy was 38 years. If Maugris body hopped into a person who was 25, he would’ve spent 13 years in that body. 13 years before 1912 is 1899. In 1900, life expectancy was 40 years. This gives us 15 years of time Maugris spent in that body. This puts us at 1884.
So, we’ve found the end of several rest generations. This next life was an openly evil one. There’s no real way to know for sure which evil mage it was, but I have a guess. It would have to be someone who made enough of an impact to make Maugris take a break, but not enough of one to be vividly remembered (by the U.S.) 4 generations later. This would be the last evil mage that Maugris was in Europe, likely who got Makars banned. Someone who was distant enough to not be the first thought when you consider evil makars. Who do I think this was?
Ludmilla of Prague.
TIMELINE
-Cold Massacre in 2002
-Constantine gets a soul replacement in 1998
-Maugris leaves Europe in 1971
-woman gets her body stolen in 1966
-Maugris body hops in 1930
-Maugris body hops in 1912
-Maugris body hops in 1899
-Maugris body hops in 1884
YEARS OF BODY STEALING (SO FAR)
~134
Part 1 Part 2
Holly Black and Cassandra Claire coming up with the Maugris plot twist
you lot have gone off the rails
What an icon
you lot have gone off the rails
Imagine everyone turns up and someone’s got this really crazy story about this Maugris guy…
And then it turns out they ALL have the same story because he body hopped into each of them
all of the makars are gay? what do you want me to say? fork found in kitchen?
Maugris Timeline:
I finally figured out how to do the link thing. (more like finally sat down and actually tried to figure it out) Will probably go through the actual posts at some point and stick these in there too. For anyone who’s still wondering about this, part four is coming I swear—the last couple months have just been a bit rough for me and the only thing I really had energy to work on was art. If all goes well part four will be out within the month. For now, here’s all of the complete parts.
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3