This Post But Its The Deltabunes

this post but its the deltabunes

(versions w/out text)

So, I really like Bacchus/Dionysus. I don't work with him or anything, I just like his queerness and feminist agenda. But there is something that has been annoying me... His staff is not a pine cone.

Here are some examples of said staff(held by him, some maenads, and his wife):

The staff is described as a pine cone with oak leaves around it, he is also said to be wearing an oak leaf crown.

Here's the thing, why would the god of wine and drunken parties have a pine cone with oak leaves?

The answer is that he wouldn't.

So what is this plant? You may ask, well as a gardener and plant enthusiast as well as a study of Greek art and myth, I give you:

HOPS!!!!!!!!!

This is literally what they make beer with, wheat and hops.... And Dionysus is the god of alcohol. So the reasonable assumption should be that this is the plant that he is holding!!!

But I can't find a single article about this! Not even any speculation!! Why!! It's driving me crazy so I thought I'd share it with you all.

(Now I can understand a little why no one has ever realized this, hops are like two inches long a piece so it is a giant hop, but he's a god!!! He could totally create giant hops!!)

Hey quick question princess andromeda from the myth with Persus is from Ethiopia ? But then how come in paintings she is white ?

Quick question, long answer. Yes and no. It’s a little confusing. There are several parameters to this.

Aethiopia, an etymologically Greek name, is the name different Greeks gave to different places of the world. In the classical era (440 BCE), Herodotus called all the area south of the Sahara and the Nile as Aethiopia, making thus the most relevant description. Pindar however, a contemporary of his (~450 BCE), calls Aethiopia the region around Elam (Southwest Iran). Same as Hesiod, who did that in 700 BCE already. In ~500 BCE, both Scylax of Caryanda and Hecataeus of Miletus seem to agree Aethiopia is east of the Nile and expands throughout the Arabian peninsula all the way to the Indus Valley and the Indian Ocean. The first mention of Aethiopians is by Homer (~800 BC) who vaguely says that they lived in the extremities of the world, in the far east and west.

So as you see, the earlier back in time, the more generic and distant the term’s meaning is. Herodotus is likely the one who seals the association of Aethiopia with only sub-Saharan Africa and the country south of Egypt in particular.

The origins of Greek mythology precede all these writers. In general many historians suggest that the Aethiopia of the myth of Perseus and Andromeda was supposed to be in west Asia and perhaps somewhere around Israel and Palestine. Some believe it is Jaffa, Tel Aviv in particular. I am not totally sold on the explanations why. The point is however that Aethiopia’s geographical definition especially before Herodotus and even more before Hesiod was very vague and fluid. It seems it described places that in general were too hard for Greeks to reach, exotic.

The name itself can help us understand. Aethiopian means the one who looks burnt, smoked. From αίθω (aétho - burn) and όψη (ópsi - look, face). Now, this sounds low-key horrible in English but in Greek it’s not derogatory, but I have no better way to explain it. Ancient Greeks had written quite a few times about the attractiveness of the Aethiopians (whoever they were) so they didn’t associate the term with a repulsiveness like that of burnt flesh but just as the effect of the sun on their complexion.

In short, at least prior to Herodotus, Aethiopia was all the land inhabited by POC, even if that included large parts of Africa and Asia all the way to India. It did not include Libya (North Africa) and Egypt. This was not so much due to skintone (although it could be too - as North Africans can be way more white passing than people far from here believe) but because Greeks were well aware of these regions. Aethiopia was associated with exotic, distant places with darker people. This could be black people and brown people and all their various tones. Perhaps simply anyone who was noticeably darker than a Greek.

Now if we compare Jaffa (Andromeda’s Aethiopia) with modern day Israel or Palestine, then Andromeda and her parents could be medium brown or light brown or white / white passing.

However, I seriously doubt Ancient Greek art was concerned about skintone accuracy, simply because it was art made by Greeks and viewed by other Greeks. Everyone depicted usually followed the Greek standards of beauty. Besides, it’s a Greek myth, right? If we wonder about Andromeda’s complexion, then we should also wonder about her name! And her mother’s name! Why are they Greek? Well, simply, because it’s Greek mythology, which provides a genealogy where all progenitors are kin to Greek progenitors. Cepheus, Andromeda’s father, is brother of Danaus and has Argive ancestry (since this is a myth from Argos!). So if that’s true, Andromeda has Greek ancestry and might be white-passing because of that. But these is just exhaustive and in my opinion unnecessary nitpicking.

In Ancient Greek art complexion is almost always not depicted accurately but men are usually depicted as dark and women as fair because this was the beauty standard.

No this doesn’t mean Perseus was black and Andromeda white! It only shows the beauty standards of the time. Corinthian vase. Archaic period.

Andromeda, Perseus and Cepheus. Apulian vase, Classical Period. All look white or white passing.

Here although the skintone is the same, the artist makes Perseus blonde in order to stress Andromeda’s darkness through the haircolour. Zeugma, Roman period.

And… look at that!

In this ‘mildly’ racist art, Andromeda is depicted as a dude as the tall white-passing person in the middle and she is getting tied for the beast by fellow Aethiopians who however look nothing like her. They are shorter and clearly African. Andromeda wears Phrygian, thus non-African clothing, but also nothing like the Greek clothing. This artist wanted to provide some diversity but apparently not for the beautiful princess lol Attic vase, probably Classical period.

Anyway so, Andromeda was either brown or black or white passing at most, because of Jaffa and the argive ancestry. Once Aethiopia - Ethiopia’s location had become more specific though, western artists depicting Andromeda as pretty fair of skin or blonde is misrepresentation with questionable motives. My opinion is that there is a wide range of looks Andromeda can be depicted to have, but not something that makes her look whiter or even just as white as Perseus.

Happy pride month 🏳️‍🌈🦭🏳️‍⚧️

noelle 🦌 I looove drawing her hair like this