(I Would Also Like To Preface This With This: I Only Watch The Anime ((Eng Dubbed- On A Piracy Sight

(I would also like to preface this with this: I only watch the anime ((Eng Dubbed- on a piracy sight no less so further disconnection from the mangaka)). When I post about the series ((primarily regarding my AUs)) I am talking about specifically the anime, including the changes from the manga to adaptation.)

I spent months worrying about coming across as a bad person for having MIA being one of my favorite things- and I’m just very tired. So I am so happy to see someone outside of the fandom defending us. I love MIA for its many good traits, not for the problematic under tones. And I, in no way condone the actions of the creator.

MIA to me, will forever be about traumatized kids finding love and joy within each other despite the cruel world around them. Finding light in the darkest of places. About perseverance and determination. Lost kids who found each other but not a way home; though in the end maybe that’s all they need.

And I hate to see it get boiled down to its worst qualities; to its awful creator

(PS. This post was done on a whim without much forethought- simply it was rash. So I apologize for the possible poor wording or passive aggression)

I really really need y‘all to use some critical thinking right now.

Like it or not, but „Made in Abyss“ is extremely successful and critically acclaimed. It’s not some Dark Web niche child torture porn. Most anime fans have checked it out at some point or another.

The story isn’t centered around child molestation. Children are the main characters and it’s a dark twisted story so dark twisted things are happening to them. Is it my cup of tea? No. I dropped it after a few episodes, though I can’t remember why.

However, a plot like this isn’t unique to this story either. Though dark in a different way, „Promised Neverland“ also had child orphans as lead characters and terrible shit was happening to them as well. I really loved that one. Does that mean I enjoy watching children suffer? Fuck no. I enjoy the plot and watching these kids overcome the darkness and the same seems to be true for most MiA fans. Now let me make it clear: I’m in no way saying PN is as problematic (it seems like the MiA author actually caters to the messed up subsection of the fanbase on bonus pages that don’t get published and translated), but simply pointing out that there’s been other popular horror series with child protagonists.

Is the author of „Made in Abyss“ problematic as fuck? It sure seems like it, but that shouldn’t reflect on his readers. I sure as hell don’t research the authors of every piece of media I consume and I’m pretty sure that goes for most people.

I‘m also not defending the pedos in the fandom, but y’all, even My Little Pony has a huge chunk of those in the fandom but they’re clearly not a reflection of the entire fanbase.

TLDR: Don’t base your entire opinion on Twitter threads. Research the content you’re criticizing. Use critical thinking. Someone using big words doesn’t mean they’re right.

For reference, here’s the critical reception section of MiA‘s wiki page.

And from the reply by @niwakunis - some censored manga panels so you can get an idea of what the controversy is about:

Controversial scenes and elements are also listed and further clarified here:

Koreaboo

What Is “Made In Abyss” And Why Is It Controversial For K-Pop Idols To Talk About?

Recently, idols likeTXT's Soobin and NCT's Taeyong have come under fire over "Made In Abyss," leaving many wondering why recommending it is

NOT PEOPLE BEING MAD AT NOONE FOR CHOOSING TO GO TO THE NOWHERE INSTEAD OF STAYING WITH HER DELULU CHILD PSYCHOLOGIST 😭😭😭

Just going to say this right now, Otto was grooming Noone- not sexually- but grooming her and using her as a place holder for his sister. He literally roofied her with candy and did the same thing to another kid. Something else I want to say is that Noone’s parents, at least in her perspective, abandoned her. She had a brain tumor, and even if she wouldn’t die from it, Noone was already absolutely losing it over the thought of still being sick. Noone would have likely died, especially considering how she had a seizure during Rusty’s death. To her, she had nothing left.

Hate to add more six discourse, but the LN fandom really forgot how stupid little kids are. Evil little kids in media are fun, but the thing is that there are so many context clues and shit even said by the devs pointing that six isn’t evil, at least not inherently so. She’s a great example of a morally grey character. It’s insane that some people in this fandom legitimately go on rants wishing death upon a fictional child. YOU GUYS ARE MISSING THE WHOLE POINT OF SIX BEING MORALLY GREy 💀💀💀

Anyways I hope Otto explodes

I’ll be honest, I get that it’s a Hamilton reference, but a lot of the “Odysseus Said No!” jokes feel really weird about the Circe album. I’m happily surprised this was changed from the original myth but also…if he had sex with Circe that wouldn’t be him “saying” yes about anything.

He is trapped on an island. His men are nearly gone. Circe is a God level threat. Even if he has the moly he can’t fight forever.

“Want to save your men from the fire.”

She is manipulating him with leverage in this moment because she knows he can be used. He is the victim there, that “Say No!” reference or anything similar feels very icky here because it feels like it’s implying that if Odysseus hadn’t done anything against her he would be on some level at fault for it, when he is the victim.

Idk it just feels weird.

SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK👏👏👏

This is a vent and don't come screaming at me but I'm genuinely uncomfy when people compare "Say No to This" and "There Are Other Ways". Maria wasn't holding Alexander's men hostage. Alexander got with her of his own volition and the blackmail occurred only after they were going "steady". Both in musical and in real life. The "Reynold's Pamphlet" exists (Summary of it). Odysseus needed to get his men back. He was afraid of Circe. Maria had very little power over Alexander, she was way younger than him and already in an abusive situation. Alexander is not like Odysseus in this way. These two situations and songs are not comparable. (This isn't to hate Circe btw. Coercion is fucked, but she's also an immortal goddess. Every single immortal has "bad and good" moments and this is one of her bad. Morally Gray. If you're a fan of Circe, good for you. Just understand that this was fucked up. I think Apollo is neat but that doesn't mean that what he did to Cassandra was okay. Circe is cool but that doesn't mean what she did here was okay either. We good? Good.) Or when it gets portrayed as romantic. It's not. It's so so not. And it never should be.

There are lyrics that Circe sings in "There Are Other Ways" that are:

"Don't be afraid,

Think of your past.

Don't break from this"

before kind of cutting off to join Odysseus in "So Much Power."

Don't break from this? Don't break from this! Wow! What romance! I feel safe 🙃

Odysseus says "I'm just a man. Forgive me." Just a man usually only gets said when there are gods involved. Zeus tells him to kill baby Astynax. A god is telling him to do something he doesn't want to do but he does it because of the consequences that would happen otherwise. "My Goodbye" has "Just A Man" in how Athena tells him he's just a man and that's when she leaves. A god is involved and he's not happy but he can't control Athena. He says it again during this song before he "gives in". It's always acknowledging that he's just a man. A regular man now tossed into a world of immortals and monsters. THAT'S THE POINT! The "man" part isn't saying that "he can't help himself" because he's a man! It's because he's mortal!

I know it's mostly a joke and I don't hate anyone who has made the joke but ick. 😞

SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK

I’m SO tired of people acting as if EPIC isn’t its own fandom deserving of its own things separate from the odyssey. The odyssey is an ancient myth told originally orally for generations in Ancient Greece. That may have served as a sort of lesson or perhaps warning against hubris. Or maybe it served a completely different purposed. (from my understanding- correct me if I’m wrong) The point is it’s not one clear story- it’s not like our modern day “traditional” story with a clear cut: “This is what happens canonically, this is how the characters act, this is why so and so happened.”

EPIC however, is that. It’s a retelling not simply an interpretation or an adaption. It’s based off of Homer’s Odyssey, not that it is it just in musical form.

The Odyssey is a myth from an ancient religion and culture. EPIC: The Musical, is a work of fiction only based off of the Odyssey, that is made in the modern era

when I say “Look at my EPIC AU!” I mean EPIC not The Odyssey

Something I like about epic the musical is that it Gives it's changes to the original text an actual Purpose

( The first couple paragraphs are basically a rant regarding retellings. If you only want to hear about epic Skip to paragraph 4)

1. I am a bit annoyed by the lack of. Understanding as to why RETELLINGS aren't the most historicaly accurate things in the world. Sorry to break this to you, but that's both just how they work and I would guess how they reach success. Ancient Greece is a much different culture than our own, And most of us would be terrified to actually live back then. When you are Trying to create content That is based on ancient Greece And you want it to be successful/ At least reach a wide, and notably, MODERN audience. You're likely going to have to take some creative liberty And change a few things. Don't get me wrong, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO LIKE RETELLINGS KNOWING THAT FACT ( Me personally, I'm not the biggest fan of Miller's novels Even though I do like epic) BUT IT IS SOMETHING TO BE AWARE OF. And because of that I don't think I would ever expect a retelling to be perfectly accurate And I don't. I had interest in mythology LONG before epic the musical But I didn't actually read the Odyssey until getting into epic. I did not expect it To be just like the musical, I knew Odysseus was going to be much more of an asshole, along with other characters. The odyssey and epic are different pieces of media to me And I am not less of a mythology nerd for liking epic ( Though I will admit that sometimes I take tiny little fun facts of mythology And like to think of them in the context of epic, but that's just for fun.)

2. The Only time being a fan of retellings is wrong as if you genuinely believe they are perfectly accurate And refuse to listen to anything else ( Which has definitely happened, And mythology nerds have the right to be annoyed at that)

3. Some people only like to consume real mythology media, Others like both real mythology and retellings, Others only like to engage with retellings (I would hope they have the self-awareness to know It's not real mythology, From what I've seen some do and some don't, Unfortunately)

4. Ok. now on to what the title of this long ass rant says

I like that epic the musical Retells the story, Not only to both cater to modern audience But Also with its OWN purpose of man versus monster.

Obviously, this is not the point of the original text. Mythos Odysseus does not give a single fuck About the stuff that epic odysseus does. I don't know why the creator Decided to rewrite it this way, (If he's ever said why let me know) But I would assume he wanted to make something about the oddessy And this was simply a very creative way to Translate that for modern audience.

I like this because, yes, holy damn. It does have changes from the original text. But it's not JUST changing it. It's changing it with a purpose

It feels reminiscent of some kind of Dramatic play. the way that epic characterizes.

Polites' kind nature is Representative of the Concept of being merciful Represented in his lines such as " This life is amazing when you greet it with open arms" /"There is so much guilt inside your heart, So why not replace it?"

While in contrast you have eurylochus with more ruthlessness and cautious nature, this is Found in some of his lines such as "You rely on wit, and people die on it" /"we don't know what's ahead" / "I say we strike first. We don't have time to waste so lets raid the place-" /"Let's just cut our losses, You and I and let's run"

And then you have Odysseus, the man/monster. The first act of this Musical is his internal struggle With what He should be On that scale. And the other characters Represent this struggle in the song monster

" Is the cyclops struck with gilt when he kills, is he up in the middle of the night? Or does he end my men to avenge his friend and then Sleep knowing he has done him right?

When the witch turns men to pigs to protect her nymphs, is she going insane? Or did she learn to be colder when she got older and now she saves them the pain?

When a God comes down and makes a Fleet drown Is he scared that he's doing something wrong? Or does he keep us in check So we must respect him and now no one dares to piss him off"

He then Applies this to himself

" Does a soldier use a wooden horse to kill sleeping trojans cause he is vile? Or does he throw away his remorse and save more lives with guile?"

And this marks his turning point of deciding that Ruthlessness It's ultimately worth it if it means Getting home, as aeolus says "The end Always justifies the means"

It's in my opinion, a very creative way to go about retelling a myth. Is it accurate? Absolutely not. For example, circe (From what we know) is not protecting When she turns men into pigs, For all we know, she could just do it because Shits and giggles.

Her character and most others in epic is changed from the original. But it's not ONLY changing for the sake of apeling to the modern Western audience and being successful like Many other retellings. It is also and mainly changing for the sake of influencing the plot that Jorge Rivera herrans crafted For the sake of Retelling epic. It is creative and I enjoy it despite knowing it's not accurate.

Response Summarized

Please DO NOT harass anyone there's been more than enough of that to go around during this whole thing, I'm so mentally drained.

I will likely not look at things on the situation anymore; it's been aggravating my anxiety to high levels for days and bringing my mind back to thinking about my past years-long experience irl with what might've been emotional abuse? 

My takeaway from this: guilty? innocent? I'd say innocent in some regards and guilty in others. A gray area? perhaps not as simple as some believed. I'm sorry for all involved and that somewhat includes Alex Kister themself as no one deserves to be doxxed and harassed as they were. The seriousness of the situation is that these rash responses could've driven them to committing or resulted in them being killed instead of receiving this response, think about that.

This has been extremely immaturely and awfully handled by the internet and community, think on your actions because some responses made were very much illegal.

Also remember that it is not within your right to be like, "Alex, we all forgive you🥺" You were not the one who got hurt. People still had their mental health declined by Alex's reckless actions, which I am truly sorry for. 

I'll likely still post TMC content sometimes, as I'm emotionally attached to the characters. The fandom itself got me through some difficult times, and I would have stayed regardless only due to that, as I never had any of a parasocial emotional attachment to Alex, only knowing them to be the creator of this series and nothing more. I do not support the actions committed.

I think that both Ven and Alex need to take a step away from the internet, as well as their past relationship issues, and go offline. I believe TMC (the official series at least) should NOT be continued out of respect for the people Alex hurt with reckless behavior; however, I will still be staying in the TMC community; do not harass me for that decision. 

Anyone may feel free to share tldr I got off discord to other sites or with mutuals, friends etc. If you have the time please actually read the document itself.