Wen Remnants - Tumblr Posts
Well! There’s shades and shades to the Burial Mounds that are easy to miss without the cultural context. Also depending on your translation.
@wuxiaphoenix thought you might find this interesting.
Hey just read your lovely hands fanfic and the concept of the blood pool being a prison for malevolent entities barred from the cycle of reincarnation is so COOL , is it a thing implied between the lines and we western audiences lack the cultural context to recognise it ?, or is it something you came up with if so can I have permission to incorporate the concept into my own fan works?
It is a cultural thing. It's not even implied in the novel. It's just outright stated. But it's one of those hundreds of tiny cultural details that probably fly over the head of the international audience.
Remember when the Wen people came back as bloody corpses to protect Wei Ying and fought back the fierce corpses riled up by the repaired Yin Hufu?
In this part, the novel describes the events following the first Sige of the Burial Mound. After the hundred cultivator houses slaughtered these defenseless elderlies, women, and children, they threw their corpses into the blood pool, thus forever barring them from reincarnation.
The phrase the novel uses is 永不超生 (lit. to never again be reborn, to be barred from the cycle of reincarnation forever). That's not a figure of speech. The novel is being literal. The Burial Mound itself is already a prison for all kinds of undead and ghost wraiths. The blood pool, by the novel descriptions, amounts to a maximum security cell. A ghost in the Burial Mound can eventually let go of their grudge/resentment and enters the afterlife/reincarnation. But anybody thrown into the blood pool doesn't have this option.
永不超生 is commonly portrayed in Chinese culture as a punishment by the authority of the underworld. That's not a judgment that a mortal is allowed to make.
The fact that the Hundred Houses carried out 永不超生 on the Wen is a detail that speaks of both their arrogance and their awareness of their guilt.
The Hundred Houses are well aware what they did to the Wen remnants is a sin. The custom of the time is, if you profess yourself to be the righteous side and slay someone seen as 'evil/villain,' it's customary to hang their corpses up for all to see.
Remember Nie Mingjue beheading Wen Xu and hanging Wen Xu's head at the gate of Uncleam Realm for all to see? NMJ is not doing that just because he has a vendetta against the Wen. He's doing that as part of ancient customs to declare to all that 'his kill is righteous,' that he doesn't need to hide it, and that Wen Xu and the Wens are villains that need to be put down.
That's the principle. Justice has no need to hide.
But not only did the Hundred Houses hide the corpses of the Wen remnants, but they also imprisoned their souls, hoping that would keep the Wen from coming back as grudge wraiths or for the karmic cycle itself to snap back for this sin.
The Hundred Houses built up the Wen remnants to be this evil army at Wei Ying's beck and call. So they need to be put down. But the truth is that they were just a bunch of elderlies, women, and children who spent all their lives being doctors (as they belong to the Qihuang branch, with their own pacifistic philosophy).
Had the Hundred Houses performed the custom and showed their supposedly righteous kill to the world, then the truth would out. That they were either liars or stupid, and that they best be prepared to repay for their transgression on both innocent Wens and on the authority of hell itself.
And that, my friend, is why the second Burial Mound Siege ended the way it did, and why the vast majority of those same cultivators left Wei Ying alone afterward. What do you think those same cultivators think when their victims break out of the supposedly unbreakable maximum security cell to save Wei Ying (another of their victims)? And then those same Wen souls entered the afterlife?
The Western vernacular for this part is: Karma is a tenacious bitch with a long memory. It doesn't matter how much they lie about their crime and act like they are righteous or how good they think they hide the proof of their deeds. Heaven and hell itself are watching.
....Sorry, I have some strong feelings about the treatment of the Wen remnants.
That is to say, feel free to incorporate it in your works.
Is there a part in the novel that indicates the Wen Renmants were mainly civilians? Some folks think being cultivators mean you lost your civilian card.
Going back to the novel, the impression I got is that leftover Wens were cultivators that were not fit for war; thus, make them no different than civilians. I don't know if this is right or not.
(I have the translation in Vietnamese though)
Everywhere that I’ve read, minus Jiang Cheng’s own words when he first goes to the Burial Mounds, calls the Wen remnants “Wen cultivators” (and this is all exr since no other translation I’ve read covers these chapters). However, I guess it should be noted that these are all direct family members of the Wen Clan, which is a cultivation clan, so everyone would likely be raised a cultivator. Being a cultivator neither precludes one from being an average civilian nor automatically makes one a soldier.
With that said, the story tells us multiple times that the disciples under Wen Ning were not combatants in the war, and some people in the labor camp could not have been combatants due to age (A-Yuan and Granny) anyways. I cannot speak to every individual Wen remnant because the story doesn’t, and I think that’s purposeful. Ultimately, the justification for the labor camp is arbitrary. One of the nameless clan leaders says it best:
“What Sect Leader Nie said is quite right. Besides, Wen Qing is one of Wen RuoHan’s most trusted people. You’re telling me she never participated? Well I don’t buy it. Is there any Wen-dog without a single drop of blood on their hands? Maybe it’s just that we haven’t found out about it yet!”
Even if every Wen remnant had been a non-combatant, the cultivation world would have still found a way to proclaim them guilty. They’re not being punished for participating in the war; they’re being punished for being Wen.
I have an inquiry, if you don't mind answering. Many people like to depict the Wen remnants as all old people with the exception of WN, WQ, & A-Yuan. My question is, are they all old or are they mostly a mix bag of civilians. I don't know if the text ever really goes into detail about them.
Please and thank you for your help and insight.
The only physical description we get of the Wen remnants outside of the characters you named comes from Jiang Cheng:
Jiang Cheng mocked, “Those sect leaders thought you gathered some leftover forces and crowned yourself king of the hill. So it’s only the old, the weak, the women, and the children.”
—Chapt. 73: Recklessness, exr
He doesn’t say everyone is old, just that no one is an active threat. Outside of this, no other Wen remnant gets a personal physical description.
I'm the anon who's been reading ur SWaK fic! Thank you for answering the qi deviation question. it's making me see mdzs in a whole new light. I recently saw a post (askSythe on here) about the significance of the blood pool and how throwing bodies in there removes them from the reincarnation cycle and that's what the clans did to the Wen Remnants and JC is rumored to have led this siege and my heart HURTS. continuing this in next ask -
Hey there anon 👋🏻
I'm glad you're enjoying my fic ☺️
As for the post you are referencing, I had not come across this until you mentioned it in your ask and have since went in search of it in order to reply. From what I can gather from the notes, it seems to have garnered a lot of controversy and subsequent backlash against the person who posted it originally.
I don't want to criticise other people's posts (especially when they have already received so much negativity from it), but with all due respect, I don't feel this was MXTXs intention with the blood pool. There's no mention of it in any version I have and I've also had my friend check the entire original novel for the phrase '永不超生', which is quoted in the original post, and we can't locate that in the Chinese text either. Regardless of that, I don't feel such a claim fits with the rest of the novel.
I could be completely wrong, as it's not something I've really thought about, nor do I have the cultural knowledge of the specific concept the original post is referring to. But, if the Wen remnants were forever barred from reincarnating due to their corpses being thrown into and essentially trapped in an apparent 'unbreakable prison' (which they managed to escape), why would WWX set an array around the blood pool to stop corpses escaping when he lived there back in his first life? 🤔 How were all the corpses able to crawl out and run amok the minute a rampaging WN broke the seal around the pool? It just doesn't make much sense to do that if the fierce corpses residing within are already trapped there.
There's also the fact WWX uses the blood pool as well. Which makes me question this theory even more so. It goes against WWX's character and ethics to stop souls from reincarnating, when his very cultivation method involves empathy and 'spending' resentment so the entities can move on. Granted, WWX used the blood pool to nurture corpses resentment so he was able to harness it and direct it where required - in this case, I think it's most likely to replenish those guarding the base of the burial mounds and keeping the Wen remnants safe. In theory, the corpses residing there would eventually use up their resentment and their souls would move on. Hence the need for a supply of new fierce corpses he can utilise - which he helps move on in turn. I really don't think WWX would do such a thing if the blood pool was anything other than a collection of water that held strong resentment due to being contaminated by the many corpses already present in its depths. If anything, it's a similar situation to when he found the sword in the Xuanwu of Slaughter's stomach, which had been practically marinating in all the resentment of the beast's past victims.
Obviously the Wen remnants were unable to move on after being mercilessly slaughtered, but that is simply because they were denied a proper burial and unjustly murdered in what was a most violent, unprovoked attack. Once the blood corpses had spent their lingering resentment, saving the very people who had killed them and the man who tried so hard to protect them, they finally moved on and turned to ash - which WN promptly collected to ensure they could finally be put to rest respectfully, as they should have been long ago. I see no indication that they would not move on because they were left in the blood pool specifically.
Of course, the way the cultivators involved in the siege not only murdered innocent people, but then treated their victims corpses with such disgusting disrespect is utterly appalling. Even though there is no evidence that the blood pool acted as a type of supernatural prison of sorts, it does not subtract from what the cultivators did. They still made sure the Wen remnants could not rest in peace by their heartless actions regardless.
As for JCs involvement in the siege, it's not actually a rumour that he led the siege, he most certainly, unequivocally did. It's actually outright stated a few times in the novel. Even when WN mentioned as such, WWX did not correct him on that specific accusation. Later still JGY also mentions JCs involvement, right in front of the man in question no less, with no argument to the contrary. Finally, MXTX has also spoken about JCs involvement in leading the siege and confirmed he had indeed formulated a plan based on WWX's weaknesses, as the text suggests. He was very much the driving force of the whole thing, despite knowing the Wen remnants consisted of innocent people who were either weak, old, or a toddler. He is responsible for many people being brutally murdered and shows no remorse for it either - which speaks volumes about his character.
Mdzs Fandom: JC suffered so much, he lost his entire family and sister and even his clan, surely his taking out his anger and resentment at others is totally misunderstood and reasonable, I relate to him so much 🥹
WN (who lost not only his sister and entire family and clan but also his literal life, and was held captive and experimented on for thirteen years as a trophy, watches his relatives die a second time, is treated with prejudice and disdain and fear by most of the cultivation world, yet despite all this still manages to retain a bone-deep kindness and humility, as well as a sense of righteousness as fierce as himself): Am I a joke to you?
This is what I meant when I said characters who are constantly declaring what they went through are put up on a pedestal for their non existent resilience. It's so easy to forget that other characters went through much of the same pain and handled their circumstances better, like WN who went through literal hell himself, because he barely mentions and even downplays his suffering.
A very sexy Yiling Patriarch 😄💖😙
