Astarion Spoilers - Tumblr Posts

Astarion in Early Access: "Hahaha yes I'm very charming and deceptive and evil and sex is so much fun and I really don't care about anyone."

Astarion in the Full Game: "I haven't had bodily autonomy in 200 years and I've forgotten how to be intimate with someone beyond using it to lure people to their deaths and I have so much trauma regarding sex and I seduced you because it's what I've had to do to survive for literal centuries and I needed you to be on my side but I wasn't supposed to fall in love with you but you're so kind and amazing that I fell anyway and I'm terrified of real emotions but I want *us* to be real because you deserve it and I really care about you but I need you to help me because this is all so new and I'm so scared but I want this to work and I-"

Interesting things that you can get from trying all the options but that reveal a general characterization and idea of astarion and tav's romance.

I wanted to talk about Astarion's feelings regarding intimacy and sex, and indipendence, and how this can give a small timeline of his relationship with Tav.

CONFESSION VS NO CONFESSION

If you don't get the confession or drow potion scene, astarion will still stop having sex with Tav, and at the start of act 3, if you ask about it he'll tell you that he's tired of paying with sex, and that you were a bad deal now. It was all transactional but he's done. If you say you're hurt, he'll reply that it hurts more to use his body to get nothing in exchange, basically. I think this confirms that up till some events leading to the confession, the relationship was transactional. He only says "This is the one talent I have".

Given that the only difference IS the confession, but that the game assumes there's party interactions that are not shown, we can assume that he started to genuinely fall for Tav somewhere around end of act 1 and act 2. This is confirmed by the fact that if you choose him over someone in act two, he'll be confused but immediately resorts to saying it's because of your good sexy times... But, he is surprised (positively surprised) if you say it want something real with him.

The thing is... Astarion is a people pleaser. He manages to find autonomy because of finally being actually free and slowly regaining it on his own (if you end up in this wrong/broken romance situation). He stops having sex with Tav, he decides he does not need to pay anymore for whatever Tav is giving him or not.

BAD CHOICES / SAYING NO / FEELING NOTHING

If you choose the very bad choices during the confession, he will tell you that having sex with Tav has felt different "I supposes", but then he'll reveal that he didn't know how to say no after you push him. He also says that he never felt anything while having sex (does not exclude tav from this sentence, so it's assumed that this is true for their sexual meetings too), but after Tav pushed him he felt something for the first time (being that he felt horrible). I want to elaborate more on this but I need the next two points first.

INTIMACY VS SEX

In a Karlach/Astarion party romance scene, Astarion gets very mean when he realizes he cannot have sex with Karlach. The dev notes reveal that its because he feels vulnerable and confused by the fact that his one method of connecting with people is not available to him in that situation. The notes also stresses that he really wants what Karlach is offering (just spending time together) but maybe even he doesn't realise it yet. Full scene and dev notes are here.

Furthremore, most of the scenes that people associate with astarion romance are actually scenes that happen even if you do not romance him. The bite scene, offering him to feed him your blood, the bear one, discussing character's blood, the mirror scene, and probably even the scars scene... these are all general scenes, not romance ones. The only romance scenes (as far as I know) in act1+2 are: him propositioning you if you have more than 40 approval, or him propositioning you at the party, the sex scene, the second sex scene ("cheeks all flushed"). It shows how he has a desire to connect. Some of these scenes are not connected with manipulating you, but really do feel like a true desire to connect.

Regarding these last three points, I think Astarion's "It felt different from you" does come from this desire to connect. It had felt different not because the sex itself was different, but because he honestly felt like he was connecting with Tav. That is why the options that you can offer him are so important:

In particular, asking him "what do you want" will reveal that he doesn't know. From the devnotes of Karlach/Astarion we already know that he is confused about his own need to connect. But also it is important that one of the option is "we can be together without sex". Sex is what he knows, "the talents he has", and it is also the only way he knows how to connect with people because he has been made to do it for 200 years. Telling him that you can be together and show him intimacy and companionship without sex, means he will have the safety to explore other ways. And be seen as a person.

What he needs/wants is the safety to pursue what he likes ("this", your relationship) and he thinks he might want. Safety being the important word.

That is why it is clear in the game that between the confession and post-Cazador Tav and Astarion do not have sex, even Astarion remarks twice about it to ask to Tav if he is really okay with it.

That is why it makes the cemetery scene so impactful. He is not fully healed, but he wants to reclaim sex as part of his way to connect with someone as an act of intimacy.

(Instead if you choose Ascended Astarion you confirm that you only see him as sex and not a real person. The sexy kinky vampire - I will talk about this in the last point, where I talk about the bite).

RELATIONSHIP

I wanted to write a little bit about the way he defines the relationship in act 2, post confession. The confession doesn't mark a clear "we are in love from now on", it is more like offering him this step, slowing down, making sure that you can be there for each other, allowing him to be free and supporting him.

If you ask him "what we are" he will say:

This could even imply that before the confession he did see you as a victim or a target, but that is just how he saw EVERYONE. Everyone was a target or a vicim, or a night of disgust/abuse. His knowledge and ability to identify intimacy and relationships has been so beaten down that he actually expresses confusion now that he finds himself with a real relationship. That "whatever in the world could you be?" is asked with genuine surprise and bafflement.

INDIPENDENCE

Another important and fundamental side of his romance is his indipendence. There are some choices that I would normally go for and then I realized gave no approval, or low approval. I will make a full posts of these approvals, but for now I wanted to focus on three.

Someone here on tumblr already noticed and wrote an amazing meta about how offering your blood to Astarion (the next day) gives NO approval.

You can see that telling him to feed on you gives no approval. Be it because the game explicitly associate bite = sex (seen from the drow woman) and he sees this as you seeing him as some sexy vampire or be it because you are making dependent on you, I am not sure.

But if you agree instead with his suggestion:

Another occurrence, is the two times you can tell him you will protect him. DorianDarkstar on twitter also noticed and made me realize that he does this twice. There are two occasions where you can tell him "I will keep you safe" and he doesn't fully like that.

There is a scene where you can tell him that you will watch his back if he watches yours and he approves (5 points!). If you tell him he is safe, instead he finds that pretty annoying.

There is also a dialogue in late act 3, where you can tell him that you will protect him. To which he answers with almost resigned annoyance.

It is important for him to be an equal. He says so in his romance talk after Cazador. (and that is why I love Durge Astarion so much as I explained here).

So yeah, there is I think something interesting to be found not only in non used scenes (not used by the player, as some of these choices are very bad), but also in finding out what he approves or disapproves of.

So, I wanted to rant about ascended Astarion a bit. I think a lot of people try to look at it and maybe only see some of his dialogue, and decide that because his decision was to ascend, then this is the best one for him, or for the romance. This is specifically for a romance perspective. Btw, ascend him away, do it, I am not saying it is a bad choice, I am saying that it is an interesting one that should be seen clearly because it is written so so well.

First of all, I want to say that the core of this path, in my opinion, is confirming his fear. The world is NOT kind. The world is cruel, and the only thing that can protects him is power.

The note on him wanting more vengeance is that he is scared, deep down. He will also refuse to say Cazador's name, something that spawn Astarion can and will discuss with player character.

By letting him ascend, you did not see him. You did not see the moments of guilt and hesitation that he showed to you in his journey through the palace, or through the game in general. You did not see that he could be something else or that he did not need power to feel safe. I know some people do not like the "persuasion" choice, but the sentence is so short, it is just a moment, where the MC will show him that he CAN be something different. It is not easy returning to a place of such horribly long abuse, be surrounded by such violence, and remember that just a few seconds before... well, he was admitting that he saw himself in the spawns in the cells, as something pathetic that needs to be destroyed.

LOVE

Something interesting in the vampire ascended route is how much you can talk about love. Two of the options in particular are at the first night, if you can ask him what he learnt from this experience.

If you select that you hoped he would learn to love you, then this is his answer, which makes it seem like the game almost calls out the player: Is this not enough? Then this is not the route for you.

He is offering you this eternity and power and that is love for him. Later, he will also tell you "I love you, isn't this what you want to hear?". He knows what you want, and he is giving it to you, but how much of this is what he wants?

Differently from spawn Astarion there is no way to ask him here, no way to complete his arc with the third and last "What do you want?" question.

The other is related to love, you can tell him that you hoped he would learn that sex and relationships are not about power, to which he angrily replies that EVERYTHING is about power. By letting him ascend, you confirmed to him that this is true. Power is what he needed to be safe, power is what he needed to escape. Power over others is the only thing that can work and basically... exists. So even sex and relationships are about power.

In the talk just after you let him ascend, you get something similar, where he looks at you and says that you, like all the lowly creatures who desire to serve, are also awaiting his command. He sees everything as a power struggle, now.

The third mention of love is actually after you break up with him. You can see it here in this video. He pronounce the word "love" with disgust, and says that that is the game he knows, so he will play it, but that he respects you for not allowing him to destroy your love.

SELF HATRED

As I said at the start, this choice of letting him ascend is based in reinforcing the idea that the world is dangerous, sex and relationships are power struggles (and he WILL turn yours into one too), and that there is no kindness, that he should be scared.

There is also a deep level of self hatred and disgust. He wants to cut ties completely with his old self, so much that if you tell him you miss his former self he will be shocked. The dialogue in screenshots is not enough to convey the emotion so I'd recommend checking a video:

Here too:

Instead of embracing the journey and continuing, the cuts himself from his past self completely. This is quite heartbreakingly realistic.

A TRANSACTION

Another thing that is easy to notice is the transactional feel of this relationship. After he expresses surprise that you let him kill all those people, he asks you what he can do for you, what you desire. One of the options is "I want your body", to which he answers "You earned it."

This is the character who had gone through a whole arc about how sex used to be transactional (he offers you his body in exchange for the bite, if you get him to proposition before the party, he seduces you for protection), and had to ask to the player to go slow, because he never really knew what intimacy really was without sex as something transactional being involved.

Here, he is offering you his body as something you earned, as a reward.

Regarding the sex scene... seeing both this and the spawn one with the free camera mod, I could see that the movements are the same - the difference is that ascended continues to show sex, and they are naked... and spawn is more hesitant. You can see it in the way he hesitates after he pushes Tav down.

You can compare the videos (ascended here, THEY ARE NAKED use caution, and spawn here). The scenes are like NIGHT AND DAY.

Ascended Astarion does not push you, he does not crawl over you, he does not even seem to make much eye contact (images of ascended is from the video I posted the link of).

Look at the eye contact in spawn Astarion.

The whole scene is completely different.

OWNERSHIP

"How is being beholded to one another too different from being enslaved"

This is one of the things ascended Astarion tells the player if you break up with him, after a couple of nights. He will reveal that he would have used your trust and love until you were nothing. There are many MANY ways Astarion expresses ownership over you.

One example comes from meeting Araj:

Here he is referring to the fact that Araj thought him your slave, but now it is you who belongs to Astarion.

Another small moment is when you can ask him "Are you going to compel me like Cazador did with you?" He doesn't even reassure you, or deny it, he tells you "Why would I need you, you are going to be obedient." The key word here is obedient.

This is reminiscent of one of Cazador's rules "Thou shalt obey me in all things".

Coincidentially, a few lines after, Astarion even tells you his version of Cazador's third rule "thou shalt not leave my side":

And "Thou art mine":

Notice that you can ask him in game "you made me a spawn, what will happen to him" and he won't reply, he will just correct you on the word, saying that consort is so much better. There is another two occasions where he will talk about his desires to what will happen with you. One time he mentions that he wishes he could sequester you in his palace, but that will have to wait, and in another occasion you can remark (after break up) that he would have treated you like furniture and he does not deny. If you play as Durge and you choose Bhaal, he will laugh about you sitting naked in his lap, while he gives order to his horde, from HIS palace.

There is an ownership in the whole dialogue choices of this path that is really hard to miss.

BREAKING UP... 4 days later

Another interesting thing is that if you choose the harshest break up options he will say "There you are, the real you shows himself at last." And yet, indipendently from it, any kind of break up will end up in an aftermath scene.

This scene will trigger three nights (or two?) after, and Astarion will say some very interesting thing. I posted the whole scene here, but basically... he will reveal that he respects you for breaking up with him, he did not think you had it in him.

The difference with the wisdom check is glaring:

Keep in mind that Ascended Astarion (pre-sex) has SO MANY options to break up with him. Almost 4/5 options are confrontational. While for spawn Astarion you have no option at all to break up with him at least not until after the final scene (while Ascended Astarion has both).

CAZADOR's WORDS

I already talked about how Astarion's words kind of betray the start of his intentions to almost adopt (maybe unconsciously) Cazador's rules. This is not surprising given that the game explicitly calls his story a cycle of abuse and power, and like Cazador's got his rules from his previous master, Astarion did from Cazador. I also noticed in other moments that Astarion uses similar words to Cazador's.

Pet. One of the things Astarion will often call the player is pet. This is something similar to using "pup" in act 1, during the party, but as far as I remember never repeated (Cazador also calls Astarion a "disobedient pup"). The important thing is that you can call him out on it "I am not your pet". He says he is just joking, life is a joke!

Little wretch, cattle, stupid. There are all things that Cazador called him or used in general. I will need to dig deeper to find them all, but the most interesting one was for me "pet". I might be wrong, but I think this is something Astarion uses only post ascenscion.

KARLACH

I don't want to talk too much about Karlach because I did not play as her yet, but I know that she has a whole new path for this... and it is not a good one. Astarion's first sex night with her has him horribly aggressive and nasty, because of his own insecurities (confirmed by the devnotes). And Astarion's sex night when he ascend is even worse.

He will be so overcome by his new power to believe that he can bite her anyway, even with her engine. He will end up hurting himself and immediately accusing her of being broken, not normal, of reuining everything. Even after Karlach tries to tell him that it is not her fault.

Absolutely horrible. Given Karlach is the player character, the same would have happened to any Tav is something had prevented Astarion from biting them.

You can see the video here.

WHAT DO YOU WANT?

To conclude, Astarion's character goes through a complete arc of finding out what he wants and being seen as spawn Astarion, while ascended Astarion goes through a complete arc of finding out that power is the one thing that can save him and protect him, and obtaining it, so much that he basically owns you too.

It is two completely journey, and I think both with a satisfying conclusion.

One follows the trails of asking Astarion "What do you want?" and the other follows the trail of Astarion asking you what you want and telling you this is what you might want.

In the case of ascended Astarion, the final "what do you want" (after act 1, where he deflects, and act 2 where he says he doesn't know, he never tried it before) is "You, this", this being the safety you offered, being seen. He remarks about being seen, in particular.

For ascended Astarion, there is no option to ask him "what do you want" again, but the character still concludes the arc by using the same words he used in act 1. "This is what you want, isn't it?", where he offers the player this fantasy and the player just has to accept, and say yes.

I used to really love the first romance scene with Astarion (and I still do) but it hits so much harder after you know why he's doing it. That he's purposefully seducing you for protection and blood, that he's forcing himself to sleep with you, and this is a mask he's wearing.

It's a sexy scene and really feeds into the vampy (pun intended) jump-your-bones version of him you get at the start of the game. The whole thing starts out with him being so confident and suave, saying that he's wanted you ever since he set eyes on you and how you want to be known and tasted. It's like everyone's perfect vampire romance novel.

He's laying out the bait that's worked thousands of times over and luring you in. And you can just get right to the kissing if you want.

But, you can also stop and ask him, "And what do you want?"

And for just a moment the mask drops. This is not the same cocky seductive face we've had up until now. This is vulnerability showing. When has anyone asked him what he wants? When has anyone cared? Does he even know the answer to that question?

So he pivots. The mask snaps back into place immediately. He turns back into the master seducer and feeds you a line about shared ecstasy to get you back on track.

And then comes what is, to me, the pivotal moment. He asks you "That's what you want, isn't it? To lose yourself in me?"

Looking at his body language he seems unsure at first, maybe questioning his previous tactics. Then he slightly cowers back, lowering himself as he asks the question. The total opposite of his confidence from earlier where he's standing with his arms out wide.

He's not sure what you want anymore. You're not playing by the rules he knows. Why haven't you taken the bait yet? Why haven't you thrown yourself at him?

And when you finally Nod in agreement, confirming you're here for sex?

This. This is the face he gives you. He just looks so damn sad. To me, it hearkens back to "Of course it'll turn me into a monster. What else did I expect?"

Whatever momentary blip made him question why you're there with him, he's just been reassured about both of your roles in this situation.

He sounds so quietly resigned when he answers: "I thought so."

And then the scene transitions into the actual act. I do like to think Astarion enjoyed himself as I'm sure the PC did, but it's hard for me to watch this scene now that I know his story and history without being uncomfortable.

Just that line "lose yourself in me" is so difficult to hear. Because on paper it's so sensual. Who wouldn't want a lover to feel that way about them? But knowing the context of what Astarion expects and believes in this moment is just... oof.

And to me, this is what makes this scene brilliant. The writing, voice acting, and the mocap/animation are all just SO GOOD. It's so delicately done and Astarion the character is so good at playing a role that you can completely gloss over the deeper stuff. But once the mask is eventually stripped away you can't help but see what was there the whole time.

And as we've established, being seen is a whole aspect of Astarion's romance arc.

I originally romanced Astarion for the same reasons I'm sure most did: he's a hot, sexy vampire elf (i.e. everything that's on the surface). But, I keep coming back to him over and over again for the person I know is waiting for me underneath the mask.

As Astarion regains his autonomy, he learns to love all the things his body can do, both for others and for himself.

His elegant hands work needle and thread with ease. He's embroidered nearly every article of clothing he owns. And maybe if you ask nicely, he'll add some much needed embellishment to yours, too.

Can't open that locked chest? Don't worry, darling, he's on it. His nimble fingers make quick work of it. He plays it off as no big deal, but secretly likes it when you praise him for his efforts. Or, he makes a gigantic deal of your praise in the most obnoxious way possible, but deep down, he truly does appreciate it.

His silver tongue can draw from you the most sumptuous moans and the sweetest blushes, but also the most jubilant of laughter. He prides himself on his quick wit and is delighted when you provide him with the sustenance of banter.

He's lithe and swift. He can dodge volleys of arrows fired at him, deftly roll out of harms way, or dexterously slip from the grasp of his captors. He's a master with a dagger and bow. Watch him take down foes, left and right. He's strong. He can lift boxes, crates, barrels, you name it. Need help lifting something? Astarion can certainly assist (but not without some amount of whining).

His voice can be soft and sultry, like when he's reading poetry to you under flickering candlelight. It can be strong and commanding when he's defending himself or you. Firm when he needs to advocate for himself. You remind him to always advocate for himself, a notion he's only recently started to take to heart.

His eyes are keen. They can see in the shadows with utmost precision. He's observant, something he's had to be in order to survive. His excellent eyesight has come in handy many a time over the course of your journey.

He likes that his nose can pick up the scent of blood from a mile away. He likes how precise his sense of smell is when it comes to differentiating blood. He likes that his ears can pick up the faintest sounds. Centuries of living in darkness, of having to sneak about have helped him hone his senses.

He likes the way he can feel delightful tingles coursing through his veins when you run your fingers through his fine, silver hair. He likes the way the fine strands of snowy white curl over his forehead, tickle his skin when a breeze lifts them.

He likes the way you describe him. It's been so long since he's seen himself in a mirror, but your verbal (or literal) illustrations of him will suffice. He's edges and angles. Paleness, crimson, and silver. Ethereal. He's pretty and he knows it, but sometimes, the reassurance is much appreciated. Much needed.

Astarion likes that he can bring you pleasure. He likes that he can feel pleasure all his own when he's with you. He doesn't have to use his body to ensure his own safety. To guarantee that you won't harm or betray him. He likes that you don't ask him to do anything he doesn't want to.

Astarion loves his body. He loves how strong it is. How swift, how fragile, how durable it is. He loves how hard it works for him. Astarion's body is his and his alone, and he loves this.

it's time for some more astarion analysis~

making this a separate post in case people wanted to reblog just the gifs on their own and don't care about the extra fluff. i'm certain this scene has been analyzed to the hells and back by this point, but when i was making this set something really stuck out to me and i wanted to throw my two cents in anyway.

this is the tail end of the mirror scene from act 1, where you catch astarion looking in the mirror and lamenting about not being able to see his reflection or knowing what he looks like anymore. and while that alone is sad enough, it gets SO MUCH WORSE.

if you express genuine interest in his predicament (i.e. asking him if he misses his reflection and what color his eyes were before he was turned), you get to see the mask slip. it's one of the first times in the game that he's not hiding behind his quick wit and silver tongue.

if you tell him you'll be his mirror, you can see the change in his demeanor immediately. his face softens, the cadence of his voice changes; you can literally hear the vulnerability in every word he says. huge props to neil and the rest of larian for making the distinction between these dialogue options, of course. it's the little details that really make moments like these shine.

but there was something else i noticed in the footage i recorded as well that i hadn't picked up on any of my other playthroughs. i've spent a lot of time staring at this man's face, especially while capturing idle animations for gifs and wallpapers, and most of the time it's what you'd expect, with minimal face movement, expressions changing, etc. most companions i record seem to behave the same way, with similar expressions/blinking/eye movement.

but just look at astarion's face here. this feels deliberately unique. he is SO anxious, so worried how you'll perceive him. the rapid blinking, the nervous darting of his eyes… it genuinely breaks my heart.

(tumblr will only let me upload one video per post, but just look at any other idle footage of him and you'll see the difference)

and the second you tell him what he thinks he wants to hear? that he's very attractive? he slips right back into his suave, flirtatious persona, and even praises you for complimenting his looks. even if you eventually ask him if all he wants is shallow praise, he still deflects and isn't completely honest with you.

note that if you choose to take the less compassionate route and simply tell them that he has a "very good face," he will still prompt you to tell him what you see when you look at him, and the delivery of the line is subtly but noticeably different and more guarded. similarly, if you poke a little too much fun at him by calling him old and draw too much attention to his mole, he gets very flustered and ends the conversation immediately. understandable, since he's relied on his appearance for so long, and hearing (even jokingly) that even that might not be something he can use anymore must be at least a little terrifying for him.

so naturally, you might think that by being truthful with him would perhaps net you a better result -- after all, you're telling him what he asked for, what you really see, that you see him as more than just someone to lust after -- but it doesn't. he actually seems a little upset if you choose those dialogue options. in that moment, he wants to know that you find him attractive, because he thinks that's all he's good for. because if you find him attractive, there's a chance that he could seduce you and use you for protection against cazador. i do think he also genuinely wants to know that there's so much more to him than just a pretty face, since that's a big theme of his entire story/romance arc, but that's not at the top of his priority list this early in the game. he's relying purely on instinct. he knows how to respond to people telling him he's attractive. accepting genuine compliments about the person beneath the mask? that's probably not something he's had much (if any) experience with in close to two centuries. he didn't have the luxury of being able to let anyone see who he really was.

all that to say that this interaction is really heartbreaking. he wants to be seen, wants to be understood and possibly loved, but at the same time he still thinks he needs to put on a front to ensure he can keep himself safe. watching him slowly start to unlearn those habits during the course of the game has been one of my favorite things about bg3 and a huge part of what's really endeared astarion to me as a character.

God damn, the scene where Astarion decides to give up on the ritual and then bawls because he finally broke the centuries-long cycle of abuse.

It legit made me cry.