There's Something So Strange About How Online Fandom Discourse Has Reached This Point. I'll Use The Above

There's something so strange about how online fandom discourse has reached this point. I'll use the above interaction as a jumping off point because I've actually been meaning to talk about this for a while (I've already done so with my friends) and this makes it easier to have a frame of reference going forward.

So, for now, ignoring the underlying tones and approach of the asker, lets grapple with the question. Is it possible for two people with incredibly different takes on the exact same work of art to engage meaningfully about the art together? I wholeheartedly believe that is the case, provided both parties are willing to have that discussion. Coming into someone's critical space and shouting down at them to 'let people enjoy things', a phrase I thoroughly despise, certainly isn't going to open up that discussion. And to cover my bases, the inverse is true: entering a positive fandom space and calling everyone's taste trash isn't going to cultivate any meaningful conversations either. And I don't doubt that people know this, as I have personally had engaging conversations about media I personally dislike with people who do enjoy it; in most recent memory this is Murder Drones, but I won't get into the gritty details as to *why* I dislike the show here. A post for another time.

So clearly an inability to communicate isn't the issue. Rather, I believe the issue is the 'us vs them' mentality that has been fostered in fandoms since the very beginning. The issue has certainly exacerbated over the years, but let's not pretend like early fandom was a utopia. Fandom most notoriously has had shipping wars since forever, which originally were wholly fandom-contained. The larger public generally only knew about shipping wars either from personal experience within the fandom, or later as the fighting got so intense that real world consequences (or rumours of such) occurred. Now, however, fandom isn't content to remain within its own spaces. We've *moralized* fandom, linked our participation with media to whether we are good or bad people, decided what is acceptable and unacceptable to like on the larger scale. On some level there is something to be said about how one engages with media might say something about them, but this is largely on a case by case basis and in addition to other facts about someone. Someone who likes Harry Potter might not be transphobic, but with additional context (ie, subtly implying there are less 'worthy' trans people) it might say something about this person that they choose to engage with that media.

Back to fandom at large. So we've linked our worth as people to fandom, and now fandom has become something of a taboo topic similar to religion and politics. You only discuss these things with people already within your group, as others outside the group clearly are participating in blaspheme or some such. To criticize a work in any capacity is to attack the group, the individual, and thus conversation is dead on arrival. How do you have a conversation with someone so entrenched in their beliefs they refuse to ever engage in good faith with someone outside of them? Personally, I still have the energy to respond to even bad faith questions earnestly in the hopes that I could get at least one person to, if not change their mind, at least see another perspective. For others, however, it's easier and typically less draining mentally and emotionally to not engage. I don't blame Chai for his response in the least, as he gets these sorts of dead-end bad faith engagements very frequently.

It still depresses me, honestly. I quite like talking about art. I would love to have a frank and civil discussion with someone who wholly loves media I passionately despise, and vice versa, because I want to understand the perspectives of people who connect with things I cannot and those who don't connect with what touches me deeply. Unfortunately in the current fandom climate that is made difficult at best, impossible at worse, and I wish I had a solution. Maybe if we brought back book clubs that would fix things.

Be kind to each other. Approach your fellow human with a willingness to learn and understand. Incuriosity isn't a trait, it's a behavior.

Could you have a frank and normal discussion with someone who disagrees in absolutely anything you say about Helluva Boss S2's quality?

Because, yes, as surprising as it is, there are people who are actually enjoying the direction of the series currently and it's writing.

Bruv idk, you just seems to be so engulfed in your bubble that I don't think the idea of ppl enjoying HB S2 and being able to counter argument your points is even possible.

Not when you come out of the gate like that, I can't.

Tone tag discourse is kind of a pain, because I feel that a lot of the times it's always framed as an autistic vs allistic issue, but that really strips the nuance down. I for example find tone tags to be genuinely more confusing than had you used better word choice in the first place. Tone tags also require an entire understanding of their applications that isn't readily apparent due to being abbreviations, and there are several that aren't useful (half-joking, lyrics, et cetera). The only one I have ever used and even then am not consistent on is 'reference' and this is largely because I was generally pressured into using it due to the frequency of my references being not understood, and even with clarification that it was a reference people would still be upset with me.

I feel tone tags likely exist specifically because of the nature of Twitter, where your character count is heavily limited and thus an abbreviation is needed, but otherwise why wouldn't it be a better solution to either reword your sentence so it's more accurate in your communication or to just add the entire intended tone at the end? Isn't something like 'I enjoy this (genuine)' easier to parse than '/gen'? Isn't the former also easier on screen readers, therefore being a far more accessible modification than the slash with an abbreviation? I don't know, maybe I'm thinking too hard on this, but it's frustrating to me when no one can seem to actually grapple with these ideas and when I bring them up I'm called ableist.

this is like the funniest thing they could have made blaidd say

Yeah I love manipulating my friends for my own gain, the gain is called "hanging out", obtained via such cruel tactics as "showing interest in stuff they like" and "being generally complimentary and charming"

Incredibly fucking funny to me that Viv decided to release her newest short which pokes fun at anime culture while attending an anime convention.

It's kind of fucked humans don't have tails. This isn't a dog post, this is a weird freak post. I want a tail like Morgott's that I could swing and hit people with to give them mild concussions.