To Love Somebody Else In The First Place Is Always An Escape Which We All Hope For, And We All Enjoy

To love somebody else in the first place is always an escape which we all hope for, and we all enjoy it when we are capable of it. But in the long run, it comes back. You cannot stay away from yourself forever, you have to return, to know whether you really can love. That is the question-whether you can love yourself, and that will be the test.

Carl Jung, Nietzsche's Zarathustra

Ladies,

With Scorpio/Venus in 8th house/Plutonic/Venus in Scorpio placements/Saturn in 5th or 7th house/Saturnian

How is your romantic life dealing with these placements? Did you tell your long term partner about your past and transformations?

-In my experience, it brings a lot of irrational and impulsive experiences especially psychologically. Do you tell your partner your inner thoughts or keep them secretive?

-Going by the precedent, I am afraid of trusting anyone *completely* enough to tell them my secrets because of fear that people can change anytime and be possessed by their temptations and dark traits.

-I do have a desire to be completely honest and pour my heart out (or may be I just like trauma dumping) but at the same time, I will give away the key to my heart to anyone who knows my inner life and holds power over me. I just cannot take that risk.

-Which means these natives are supposed to keep their secrets to themselves hence the 'mysterious' stereotype since they are actually afraid to be manipulated/dominated/controlled.

-What is your relationship theme like - goofy buddies or mature private couple?

-How do you hold all that secret in your tummy? I just feel like exploding (Gemini moon) with all the things I want to say non stop, all my spiritual insights and revelations. I journal things but the desire to blurt it all out contradicted with need for secrecy just creates this paradox in me.

Hoping to hear some experiences with these placements.

Hello! I have a 10th house stellium, sun, mercury, and jupiter in libra

But i have moon, saturn, Lilith in 8th house, scorpio venus and pluto conjunct ac in the first house.. can i still be considered a scorpio/8th houser with these placements?, do you think your posts would resonate with me?.

Hey there,

Yes if you have moon and Saturn in 8th house and Scorpio venus, you should be able to relate to my posts. If you have not felt a connection already then perhaps you might in future. My posts on these placements are inspired by my experience especially after spiritual awakening and figuring out life, so that is a particular context around transformation and spirituality. It depends on what age and stage of life you are at, which mahadasha and antardasha you have run or are running.

Devotion and Worship

It is a tragedy to be born with the planet of romantic love (venus) in the house of the subconscious mind (8). A primal instinct (sex) combined with the basic unit of humanity (romantic relationship) placed in the hidden and the unknown. You were born because your mom and dad made love, that love ... is venus. Now take the essence of your life and put it somewhere hidden. Every time you get into a relationship, your psychological contents are shaken, highlighted, brought to the surface. Deal with them endlessly.

Devotion to love is something you learned before you learned to talk. You knew you were a romantic, a devotee shall I say? Love was not just a formality or to-do act for you, love was life itself. It was breathing, thinking, eating, sleeping, dreaming. You were *that* girl.

Why Devotion?

She was quite a devotee. All she had ever wanted was to put a man on a pedestal and worship him - not the man himself but his image, an archetype, an ideal, an emotion, a perfect masculine image that he generated in her. Merely worshipping him was enough validation and approval of her existence. Maybe it was her low self esteem that she saw herself as a very small person that had to worship someone greater than herself. Maybe it was her intense emotional complex that was so deep that she would get lost in it. Maybe it was her spiritual nature that she did not want a man but she wanted God itself.

But the Twist

While it sounds very romantic and poetic to devote yourself to a man, it does not work out like that in real life. Especially with Venus in 8H or scorpio, the kind of romantic relationship they attract are reverse of their expectation. The man (Jupiter) they attract is not the kind of imaginary God they expect, not the kind of fairy tale in movies. The pattern for these women is that they attract the kind of men who are somewhat mystic, psychic, controlling, working from a place of psychological senstivity. These are the men that do not want to be worshipped but instead reverse the cards and worship the woman instead.

It means that they have romantic situations where both parties want to worship each other or at least has the psychological desire to. So, who will worship and who be worshipped? Man or the woman? Let the man worship, that way both parties are content. Otherwise the woman keeps chasing man after man, sometimes the games are played differently.

Logic

It appears to me that when venus is placed in 8th house, romantic relations become a tool for healing. It is how Venus 8h destroys herself and rebuilds after every crush/situationship/break up is over. As if "Devotion to you is finished, now onto someone else but I will kill a part of myself for you, it is my offering to you". Here, Venus is a catalyst for healing, change, emotions, intuition, psychic abilities. A relationship is an invitation door to psychic affairs, here the native is constantly dealing with the emotions, transformations and the unconscious.

They do not get into relationship for status symbol or to make friend with their boyfriend or to admire looks and material wealth. They get into relationship so that the boyfriend can dissect their souls for them, they can dive into the psychic realms and be rescused, only to dive again and again.

Sometimes romantic love feels like being a fish in the waters of the unconscious. The most self aware state caused by relationship. All planets have spiritual significance and so does venus. Venus in 8th house is like navigating the relationship in psychic levels. Enlightenment comes when you trace the pattern of failed expectations and realize that the kind of man you attract has specific psychic qualities, like a hunter, he is driven by his insecurities, instincts, complexes and never satisfied self esteem. If you surrender yourself to him, he will be manipulative and controlling. But if you withdraw your powers and let him surrender to you, you can be the manipulative and controlling one. This is the most difficult kind of relationship because you always have to be alert of the psychic movements of your boyfriend -- what is he thinking, what are his intentions, is he feeling insecure and suspicious?

Usually these ladies are not intentionally manipulative and controlling especially after maturity and spiritual awakening. They accept the man's devotion as an offering and sit on the throne.

But ladies, what about your own devotion?

In the early tumblr days when I joined, I stumbled upon a post that read "Scorpio Venus should just be a polymath, use that insatiable intensity in other means and not just invest all of it in a man..." Venus does not rule studies but it does rule creativity, beauty, art, music, artistic talents, appreciation for beauty. Also in psychic realms, symbolism has a significant merit for the exploration and expression of what is unconscious, unknown and hidden. What does not have a language it is expressed in symbols and art.

It is a difficult lesson I too learned as a Venus in 8H lady by realizing that my particular placement and similar placements to this need to abide by rule that "Man needs to love the woman more for the relationship to work out". But to reach this point of emotional self control, even I had to go through many trials and mental rewiring. I would relapse many times to my devotee state until the repeated relapse made the self control easier.

Sometimes, we have to act opposite to our natural core impulses to make a relationship work. I know that the expected personality archetype of these natives is to "Ride or die, Wear their lover's skin, Soul lover", but in practical life it is not feasible for woman to be so emotional and devotional. It is only her loss because the low self esteem man she usually attracts will feel stagnated, he wants to be challenged and prove his worth to her. Low self esteem does not mean low value man. This lady attracts people with significant past trauma, dark childhood stories, the unhealed sensitive lover -- perhaps that is why she is a healer. Her man can heal but keep your boundaries too.

Some Venus in 8th house transformation notes:

May also apply to Moon in 8th house, Venus in Scorpio, Moon in Scorpio but especially to Venus in 8H

* Venus in 8th house is a mystery. The emotions are intense. When she is happy, she is euphoric. And then she starts crying because she just recalled a repressed past memory.

* Venus in 8H is psychologically draining but financially secure. As if universe wants her to suffer psychological turmoil yet feed her and keep her warm. As if the universe compensates for her psychological experience with financial security through parental inheritance and spousal income.

* This placement is eccentric and different from many other placements. This native deliberately likes to be private, secretive and hidden. It is because she wants to keep her life hidden from public view. Not just because she fears evil eye, but also because she wants authenticity in her personal life.

* Did I say authenticity? She has a core natural personality. Intuitive, emotional, sensitive, perceptive, psychically penetrating, empathetic. She is a healer. She knows that anything which is put in public display on social media loses its authenticity. She knows that words spoken in public are insincere. She does not care for public validation, it is depth and natural connection that she craves.

* Since she battles her own complexes everyday, she can also read other people's complexes easily. Life is a constant shadow work for her. Others may be ignorant of their shadow, insecurities and reactions, while this native can read people as if playing a piano, so easily and so beautifully.

* No doubt, this placement is psychologically challenging. The life theme of native revolves around transformation, rebirth, renewal, occult, psychology matters. Everyday is a new chapter in her life. Every morning she wakes up a different person. Since her core is so unstable and transformative, she finds identity and stability in occult, esoteric and mystical knowledge. Relationship is also based in identification with spouse, change in identity after wedding, merging identity with partner, having sex to "dissolve" the ego identification and become one with the universe with each orgasm.

* There is a major transformation in her younger self to older self. Before transformation, she could be impulsive and irrational. After transformation, she is completely changed, has emotional control and psychic insight. She can "see" what others cannot.

* One suggestion would be to not torture yourself with crying sessions to let go of the memories of past. We acknowledge that you are a sensitive person and you had a traumatic life, but you are not the only one with trauma. Almost all astrological placements have emotional trauma, that is just part of life. Venus 8H clings to her trauma, lives in it, keeps reliving it, that is where she self destructs. Try to live in a flow. Acknowledge the past and know that you are not alone. Do not let it fester into narcissism. Understand that even though people don't show it, everyone is suffering with emotional issues secretly - who knows this better than Venus 8H who herself keeps her dragons as pets with cute collars. Indeed, her inner demons obey her, she is that spiritually awakened and aware. You go to her house and find shadow dragons playing in grass.

* So much shadow work makes her fearless, as if she is rugged and unharmed. There is a healing vibes around her. People feel at peace with her. Being in her company is like meditating in Buddha temple, that serenity, safety, security, compassion and kindness. Feminine essence at its peak. Imagine an incense stick burning with its smoke, so serene and quiet, so mysterious and elegant. That is her soul. Always in touch with her emotions, never reactive and never defensive. Just flowing peacefully with the flow of life. Look how poetic smoke is, it makes no noise, leaves no traces, it is poetry to the heart.

* But this journey was not easy. The emotional healer today was once a wounded mess. We never appreciate how much of a difference emotional intelligence can make to human relationships. It changes conversations, there is no competition but understanding. She talks not because she wants to look good or show off her knowledge, she speaks because she genuinely feels a connection to your heart. Connection beyond superficiality. Connection that transforms her listener. Anyone who comes in contact with her is transformed, bewitched, hypnotized. Even the most angry person can calm down in her company, it feels just so safe to be with her. You will be heard and seen and accepted for your flaws and faults and mistakes because in the 8H there is no right or wrong, life is just a music of ups and downs. All fateful detours and blunder mistakes lead to spiritual insights. She does not judge you for anything, her only question is, "How did it make you feel? What did you learn from that experience?"

Now, depending upon the rest of the chart, we see how their life manifests. For eg, If there are significant fire placements, then the native will not be so secretive and like to be in limelight for their image.

But in conclusion, something that I have noticed with this placement is a significant lack of self concept. They are easily influenced by the energy of people, absorb the energy in their environment and may even become somebody else. This is of course not nice experience because then they will be torn apart between their natural core (intuitive) and the false adaptation they just performed, this may lead to neurotic behavior and unnecessary psychological suffering. One tip is to write down the keywords related to this placement like "transformation" "sensitive" "empathetic" "shadow work" "inner work" "secretive" and whenever you feel anxiety in social settings, mentally recall these keywords to create a stable identity/anchor in your head so you do not accidentally get carried away in someone else's energy. They are especially overwhelmed by the energies of air/fire placements that lack watery elements, because these natives are too smug and harsh for the sensitive person. Another tip is to have some will power which can be hard for these natives are pleasure seeking and indulgent too, so perhaps with some practice, behavior and emotional reaction can change. Repeated exposure to environments that trigger your insecurity and instability then practice grounding yourself in your natural core, who you truly are inside.

These natives can even make therapeutic healers, energy workers, witches, can assist you in passing from one stage of life to another, just how psychotherapy or surgery or birth or death works. They are the surgeons (penetrating vision) of the soul (just a joke).

Marry a Sun in 7th houser

Projection

As I said in a previous post about 7th house Sun, here the native has an underdeveloped ego. They do not feel respected enough, do not feel complete on their own. Every human wants a relationship but these natives NEED a relationship like it is their energy drink, batteries, electricity generator. Like their system wouldn't work if they are not relating to somebody all the time. Imagine driving a car with no lights at night, how hard is that. But let's say somebody else is telling you the directions, somebody else who knows the roadmap, somebody else who is guiding you, you can drive the car even in dark because of their instructions. This is what it feels like to have this placement. Like they do not have the same confidence in themselves but if someone else is by their side, they suddenly have all the confidence in the world. Reason being that they project themselves upon others and only understand themselves in relation to others. In this situation, she needs a man or close people to intuitively tell her who she is. She understands herself in relation to others; as a disadvantage of this placement, she can confine herself to identity like "Somebody's wife", "Somebody's daughter", "Somebody's friend". Ironically, she even likes that position. Yes, there is a secret desire to be independent, to be somebody on her own but the greater desire is to be dependent on someone else!

With these ladies, there is a sense of invisibility. As if they do not know who they are unless they are in a relationship or surrounded by other people. For ladies, it is always advisable to look up the birth chart of their mom and see the ascendant, moon and sun. It will show how her core personality has shaped and influenced your own core personality. For example, I find this description of Mother Complex in relation to 7h Sun daughter really apt because of how empty a daughter feels:

Identity with the Mother =

If a mother-complex in a woman does not produce an overdeveloped Eros, it leads to identification with the mother and to paralysis of the daughter’s feminine initiative. A complete projection of her personality on to the mother then takes place, owing to the fact that she is unconscious both of her maternal instinct and of her Eros.

Everything which reminds her of motherhood, responsibility, personal relationships, and erotic demands arouses feelings of inferiority and compels her to run away—to her mother, naturally, who lives to perfection everything that seems unattainable to her daughter. As a sort of superwoman (admired involuntarily by the daughter), the mother lives out for her beforehand all that the girl might have lived for herself. She is content to cling to her mother in selfless devotion, while at the same time unconsciously striving, almost against her will, to tyrannize over her, naturally under the mask of complete loyalty and devotion. The daughter leads a shadow-existence, often visibly sucked dry by her mother, and she prolongs her mother’s life by a sort of continuous blood transfusion.

These bloodless maidens are by no means immune to marriage. On the contrary, despite their shadowiness and passivity, they command a high price on the marriage market. First, they are so empty that a man is free to impute to them anything he fancies. In addition, they are so unconscious that the unconscious puts out countless invisible feelers, veritable octopus-tentacles, that suck up all masculine projections; and this pleases men enormously.

All that feminine indefiniteness is the longed-for counterpart of male decisiveness and single-mindedness, which can be satisfactorily achieved only if a man can get rid of everything doubtful, ambiguous, vague, and muddled by projecting it upon some charming example of feminine innocence. Because of the woman’s characteristic passivity, and the feelings of inferiority which make her continually play the injured innocent, the man finds himself cast in an attractive role: he has the privilege of putting up with the familiar feminine foibles with real superiority, and yet with forbearance, like a true knight. (Fortunately, he remains ignorant of the fact that these deficiencies consist largely of his own projections.)

The girl’s notorious helplessness is a special attraction. She is so much an appendage of her mother that she can only flutter confusedly when a man approaches. She just doesn’t know a thing.

She is so inexperienced, so terribly in need of help, that even the gentlest swain becomes a daring abductor who brutally robs a loving mother of her daughter. Such a marvellous opportunity to pass himself off as a gay Lothario does not occur every day and therefore acts as a strong incentive. This was how Pluto abducted Persephone from the inconsolable Demeter. But, by a decree of the gods, he had to surrender his wife every year to his mother-in-law for the summer season. (The attentive reader will note that such legends do not come about by chance!)

Narcissism in Husband

Like attracts like. Here with Sun in 7h, boyfriend/husband shows narcissistic behaviours, any of these:

Wanting attention to himself

Golden child of his family

Wants to feel powerful and authoritarian

Wants ego boost

Can be self-centered and selfish

My way or highway; decision maker

Was overly inflated by parents

Trophy husband;

Wants to be your center of attention

Feels important

Asserts his authority

Is faithful, Sun for some reasons gives loyalty to husband

Dominating - Submissive dynamic

Remember! Narcissistic behaviour is trauma response from repeated childhood neglect and abuse. You cannot fix him but he can heal himself if his birth chart is well balanced. Nevertheless, even though we cannot change how planets operate in house, we can become aware of them and lower our expectations - create boundaries - educate ourselves - care for ourselves.

Trigger warning = May offend someone; Ladies with sun 7H are actually quite codependent, submissive, wifey type. They are the ones to be the traditional wife, "my husband is my hero" type. So, although it may offend progressive minded people to think that she is giving up her power, but for the native it can be real choice between keeping the relationship by compromising some of her powers or be single. Relationships are hard sometimes for some natives especially when it is a major life purpose.

Marriage

It is highly advisable to take some break in your 20s and to find yourself, your identity, individuality, who you are when you are not around other people. It is hard and terrifying at first, but it will be like life changing exercise for you. This goes for Sun in Libra as well even if it is not placed in the 7th house because the sign will show the characteristics.

Nevertheless, once married, they are bound to lose themselves in their husband and IF THEY ARE MATURE, they can actually make the relationship work long term by keeping their powers, independent decision making, take the positive things from their husband while keep boundaries when he shows dominating behaviors. Remember! Maturity. Maturity. Maturity.