3,000 Or 5,000: Whats The Difference?

3,000 or 5,000: What’s the Difference?

How many cultivators did Wei Wuxian actually kill at the Nightless City bloodbath? From the mouths of gossiping cultivators directly after the first siege:

“…Don’t you remember when he annihilated more than 3,000 high level cultivators?”

“Wasn’t it 5,000?”

“3,000 or 5,000, one or the other. I think 5,000’s more likely.”

—Chapt. 1: Rebirth, fanyiyi

From the mouths of a married civilian couple 13 years later, in the present-day timeline:

Her husband, “Who could possibly guarantee that? When he killed over three thousand people in Qishan, I was very young, but I can still remember that back then, not only the immortals who cultivated, even normal people were scared of him. He’s a bloodlusting demon who has no heart.”

—Chapt. 67: Tenderness, exr

From the narrator speaking on the aftermath of the Nightless City bloodbath:

The bloodbath of Nightless City, legendarily, was a bloody battle in which the YiLing Patriarch, Wei WuXian, slaughtered over three thousand people during the night of the pledge conference on his own. Some said that it was five thousand as well. No matter three or five, one thing was for sure—in that night, the ruins of Nightless City became a gory hell in Wei WuXian’s hands.

—Chapt. 79: Loyalty, exr

From Wei Wuxian’s own mouth at Nightless City before it became a bloodbath:

What came out was indeed Wei WuXian’s voice, but he spoke in a strange tone, “Why should I dare not show myself here? Do you people here even add up to three thousand? Don’t forget that back in the Sunshot Campaign, let alone three thousand, I’ve fought against five thousand on my own before. And by appearing here, haven’t I granted your wish? No need for you to come all the way to my home tomorrow to scatter my ashes.”

—Chapt. 78: Nightfall, exr

So there you have it: the number of victims at the Nightless City bloodbath cannot number above three thousand, as that number in and of itself is a rounding up of the amount of cultivators present at the banquet in total. Notice that in Wei Wuxian’s speech, he says that he brought down five thousand Wen-aligned cultivators on his own, which is probably where the embellishment that he killed five thousand cultivators at the Nightless City bloodbath was born from. However, at the second siege, when the group of cultivators—including survivors of the bloodbath—charge Wei Wuxian with slaughtering “three thousand” cultivators, this is what he has to say:

Wei WuXian interrupted him, “Three thousand people? There were indeed three thousand cultivators present that night at Nightless City, but so too were the leaders the sects and many of their elites. With all of them present, could I have really killed all of the three thousand people? Are you thinking too highly of me, or are you looking down on them?”…

…“It’s not that I want to bargain about such a thing, but that I don’t want my charges to be doubled just because of some words from another. I won’t shoulder what I didn’t do.”

—Chapt. 79: Loyalty, exr

Wei Wuxian rightfully points out that for the fact that he was being charged with massacring three thousand cultivators, and only three thousand were gathered at Nightless City tops, along with the fact that many of the attendees of the Nightless City banquet are also present at the second siege 13 years later, it is illogical to claim that he had killed them all or even a good portion of them. So, why does this matter?

In revealing the lie within the number of deaths reported for the Nightless City bloodbath, Wei Wuxian has both revealed the cultivation world’s willingness to spread blatant lies within minor truths in order to conceal their own immoral actions as well as showed how their exaggeration of his crimes serve to fuel their continued hatred of him. The Nightless City bloodbath was an act of betrayal on the “righteous” clans part, yet even in his defense in the midst of unimaginable despair—and remembering that he has wiped out larger armies than the remaining clans’ then coalition, so much so that no cultivator who went up against him in the Sunshot Campaign lived to even report what he looked like to their fellow allies—Wei Wuxian still… managed to keep a fair amount of people alive. And now, 13 years later, Wei Wuxian refuses to bow to this slander. He didn’t slaughter five thousand cultivators at Nightless City. He didn’t even slaughter three thousand. And he will not accept these false charges on his head in the name of clans’ vengeance, any longer.

One of the greatest accusations levied against the accursed Yiling Laozu is, at last, exposed for the lie that it is, and it is only one of many narrative-changing reveals the story has to offer.

These tags be a post all of their own.

“There’s no need for you to assume when there are only two of us here.” Shi Shanyan stressed. “Don’t let Artemis and Jiang Lian get to you. You’re a genius.”

—Chapt. 24: Clarity

Shi Shanyan is absolutely right, 🗣️🗣️🗣️TALK YOUR SHIT YAN JUNXUN

No clue what this was about, but imma here for it anyway. I got yo flower!

I have tea and a soap box let's spill something shall we (Wakfu Rant)

*sips tea*

I've been in this fandom for like. A month? more? Depends on how long it took me to work through the show. I've not actually interacted with the *fandom* at all, just the canon stuff and my own spiralling insanity. But while I'm here I might as well make enemies /s. Therefore:

Oropo is a much more compelling character deserving of redemption than Qilby. Qilby:

Had a loving literal goddess mom and a bunch of loving siblings.

A beautiful planet and thriving culture he could go anywhere and do anything on

The capability of going into space without any technological aids once he got bored of the Eliatrope world and started to suffer the effects of his eidietic memory thing. We know for a fact that Eliatropes and their dragon sibs literally don't need so much as a helmet to vibe in space, they could have gone out there any time, explored the cosmos a bit, found cool things as souvenirs and brought them back to show off to his siblings.

While this is very clumsily and blatantly retconned in s4, in s2 Qilby is very open and blatant about the fact he willingly picked a fight with Orgonax with the INTENTION of forcing his entire people to flee their world into space just so he would have more company than Shinonome. An entire world and no doubt thousands of Eliatropes and who knows what pieces of their history and culture were lost because this man, and I remind you again that s2 Qilby taunts Yugo with this fact no matter how s4 woobified him, wanted to FORCE his people to join him in space rather than just let manning the fuck up and going out there with his sister on a buddy roadtrip.

Seems very convinced that some or all of his specimens in his lab are the last of their kinds, which at best means he intentionally targeted dying species on alien worlds to capture and put into jars for literal eternity which is all kinds of animal cruelty (assuming some of them aren't sentient!!) and at worst means he is the reason they are the last of their kind because Qilby wanted his souvenir to be Unique.

when his people finally found a new world to settle on and be happy and try to reclaim their culture, he instigated a SECOND GENOCIDE, this one taking out not only their home world but literally every. living. adult Eliatrope (and dragon considering the propensity for dragons to have Eliatrope twins as stated in s1). Literally thousands if not millions of people are dead, thousands of children are orphaned and left trapped in a realm where they cannot *grow up*, the vast majority of his own siblings are dead and oh look at that. He's stuck in sensory deprivation hell. Man. If only there was some course of action he could have taken that would not have led to him fighting his own siblings, losing his arm, and getting stuck in the white void of horribleness. Man this truly is a tragedy of fate. Definitely no way he could have gone back into space without the Zinit. Definitely could not have just hopped on Shinonome's back with a packed lunch and gone out there on his own knowing he would have a loving family to come back to whenever he got lonely. Man.

upon breaking out of the White Void Of Horrible he is even more mentally unstable (and yes I know he's mentally ill during the above events, that does not excuse his actions when he is aware enough of them to gloat about them to yugo later) and immediately decides that he's going to kill this entire world in order to leave and he's going to take his siblings and the few surviving eliatrope kids with him by force.

has ANYONE other than me noticed the incredibly dark and horrific implications of him apparently planning to kill Phaerys and Yugo (and Adamai likely). Yugo says he couldn't go through with it and I'll believe that, but the fact he apparently consciously PLANNED it. Am I the only one who saw that scene and went "if he kills them, then they go back to the dofus and hatch without any memories, which means he will be able to RAISE AND GROOM THEM in the Zinit to believe that whatever Qilby says is right and do whatever he wants, like galavant in space for eternity".

S4 can retcon as much as it likes to make the Orgonax thing an accident and Qilby a mama's boy (which I freely admit was funny and I would have enjoyed in any other villain), but going off s2 and moving into s3 I REALLY cannot see why people like him more and hate Oropo.

And even if we DO count s4's retcon that made the first incident an accident the SECOND WAS STILL DAMN WELL INTENTIONAL. And Qilby is still responsible for the death of thousands twiceover on top of the death of an entire culture. All of Eliatrope history, culture, science, medicine, *music*, *STORIES*, it's all gone save for whatever the Emrub kids happen to remember (and the kids will not remember it accurately because they are children). All their architecture is destroyed, all their native cuisine is GONE and so are the ingredients to make them. All because Qilby wanted to force them into space WHEN THEY DID NOT WANT TO GO and HE COULD HAVE GONE ON HIS OWN AT ANY POINT WITH SHINONOME.

Speaking of Oropo! Let's look at what we know about him for comparison!

Was created by accident and is intimately aware of it.

was thrown back in time and lived most if not all of his life perpetually terrified of changing history or accidentally erasing himself and his siblings

Not only saw all of his siblings die off over the years but had their energy absorb into him in something that is no doubt extremely traumatizing to undergo. if any of you have watched the Oropo-centric ova, man for a mastermind manipulator he sure do look like he wanna cry and throw up and curl in a little ball when two of his siblings die in front of him and he is forced to assimilate their life energy.

"Supposedly" staged several key villain creation events which I personally press x to doubt because it's so clunky when mixed in with s1 and s2 lore BUT if we graciously assume that he did then gee. can't possibly be a factor of the third bullet point and his terror of erasing the timeline with his own existence can it? Can't possibly be Oropo falling into Every Heroic Time Travel Trope Ever where the hero ensures a certain event happens in order to maintain the timeline in key points hm? Even if it's a bad idea?

Has been successfully and lovingly married? partnered? mated? to a badass half-dragon wife for literal centuries and every time they are on screen together before the Dramatic Amalia Bullshit they are loving and balanced and give off so many Old Married Vibes and then THEY RESUME that dynamic for the few seconds on screen they have before they both die.

Adopts and raises hundreds of orphaned demigods who apparently were more than happy to live in the Tower and follow him throughout their lives, and in fact show no sign of abuse or manipulation in their behavior until the finale when Anakam decides it's time for everyone to think Oropo is horrible

is actively DYING when we meet him and not just dying but faced with the prospect that there is no happy ending for him. He will never see his loved ones in the afterlife, he will never know peace, he will be assimilated by his creator Yugo and at *best* be essentially digested into raw wakfu and at *worst* be a ghost stuck in the head of a man he has extremely complicated and negative feelings about for the above time travel and sibling trauma.

Adamai EXPLICITLY MENTIONS THAT OROPO IN S3 IS ACTING OUT OF CHARACTER when he goes into his more Blatant Villain Moments. Which sure, could be "the mask" falling to reveal someone "oooo evil" but isn't it far more likely he's acting out of character because he's dying and having a crisis about it.

canonically hates violence, but was so desperate to ensure his loved ones would have a better world he was willing to resort to turning himself into a suicide bomber to "create a better world". Was this a good idea? no. but ppl apparently love to point out how Qilby is mentally unstable to justify his behavior soooooo like. Why is that excuse not applicable to the guy who's literally spent his entire life being uncertain he's even real and has a right to exist but is real enough to DIE and never see the people he loves again and therefor go off the rails in his attempts to make something better for them?

in s4, the same season that makes Qilby sympathetic so if you count that as canon then by gods you better count the Oropo moments as canon, Oropo gives Yugo a reprieve from the literal life sucking torture he's in, helps him get a new outfit, and lets Bouillon play fight him (because again, Oropo hates Doing Violence) to keep him distracted and SANE while his body is being horribly tortured. In the end Yugo even confirms they are real and a part of him which is literally all Oropo wanted in his dying speech if you rewatch the finale and boil down his fury to its bullet points (he is a clone without a future and literally says stuff along the lines of just wanting to be REAL and wanting Yugo to ACKNOWLEDGE him).

For a supposed mastermind villain who wanted Yugo dead Yugo sure does seem Super Duper Alive in the months/two years/whatever timeline Ankama is using this hot second since he created the clones and was therefore *no longer necessary* for Oropo to keep alive.

At the end of the day Qilby actively chose HIMSELF over the wellbeing of others and got multiple siblings killed as well as two worlds and an entire civilization/culture wiped out. OROPO set himself on a path of similar destruction and then ACTIVELY TURNED BACK because he was faced with the choice of his ambitions or HIS LOVED ONES and he PRIORITIZED THEIR LIVES OVER HIS OWN AND HIS OWN GOALS where as Qilby not only did not do that, he didn't do it TWICE. TWICE. Oropo's death count is miniscule and he chose to sacrifice himself rather than lose the people he was doing this for and Echo knew he would make that choice, which means she also knew his love of them was genuine. You cannot compare that to Qilby and tell me Qilby is in any way better.

Okay rant over I'm going back to planning my wakfu canon rewrite and my various Echo/Oropo oneshots thank you and good day.

Old Welsh lit: Dave punched Steve. This incurred a fine of twelve cattle and a nine-inch rod of silver and is known as one of the Three Mildly Annoying Blows of the Isle of Britain

Old Irish lit: Dave punched Steve so that the top of his skull came out of his chin, and gore flooded the house, and he drove his fists down the street performing his battle-feats so that the corpses were so numerous there was no room for them to fall down. It was like “the fox among the hens” and “the oncoming tide” and “that time Emily had eight drinks when we all know she should stop at six”

Old English lit: Dave, the hard man, the fierce man, the fist-man, gave Steve such a blow the like has not been seen since the feud between the Hylfings and the Wends. Thus it is rightly said that violence only begets more violence, unless of course it is particularly sicknasty. Amen.