Things Our Ancestors Did That Make No Sense But Actually Work...

Things our ancestors did that make no sense but actually work...

Chocolate Sauerkraut Cake

I *have* read the book, and several translations of it in various stages of completion. @antebunny The Phoenix Mountain Kiss is not portrayed, in the moment of it happening, as romantic. It’s actually a really good example of Wei Wuxian’s basic instinct of putting aside his comfort for the benefit of someone else. Lan Wangji is so horrified by what he did that he’s physically wrecking a tree when we meet him next. He himself is *not ok* with stealing a kiss, even though Wei Wuxian laughs it off as having kissed others a lot.

As for the *entire* sexual dynamic between them, the Rebel translation does not have the same tone. There are a *lot* of tumblrs discoursing it better, but the translation by Rebel is, not tonally correct. There are plenty of instances where Rebel translates things as definitive “no” statements that on or the other character proceeds to ignore. Other translations have the “no” statement as, well, not that. The bathtub scene for example. Rebel has Lan Wangji telling Wei Wuxian to stop touching him, only for Wei Wuxian into grope him instead. I‘ve seen that same passage translated as “stop moving” or “stop squirming.“ And Wei Wuxian still escalated the situation, but in meager defense, he wasn’t expecting to get away with it either. Doesn’t make it right, but they both have a few acts in their relationship that make me raise my eyebrows.

Now the novel extras are a totally different beast. First off, it’s between an established relationship, so I hope things get talked about. Actually, let me backtrack to the ending of the novel and the sex there. Wei Wuxian kneels to initiate oral sex on Lan Wangji, who basically tells him not to force himself to do anything he finds distasteful or humiliating. Wei Wuxian grins and tells him he isn’t doing anything he doesn’t want. They have several back and forth discourses, and yes Wei Wuxian does yelp and wail for help a bit, and accuses Lan Wangji of being mean to him. *However* Lan Wangji tells him he isn’t sure if Wei Wuxian is being serious or not and that he doesn’t want to actually hurt him, so stop talking if he really wants/needs to have Lan Wangji back off. Wei Wuxian responds in a torrent of *loud* words. I would call it under-negotiated kink between two virgins at worst.

Now to get back to the extras. First off, those are happening in what is clearly stated to be *dreams,* wind dreams they had as teenagers. (At least the first one.) Which is where a lot of us take the demisexual Wei Wuxian from, because he’s dreaming of an emotional domestic intimacy between the two of them that never actually makes it to being naked. Lan Wangji had the dream, as a pubescent teenager, of railing Wei Wuxian in the library after the porn stunt. He even dreamed of the porn being between two men, which it had not been. We can tell by the adult Lan Wangji‘s reaction that he is ashamed of ever having had the fantasy, despite the glee coming from adult Wei Wuxian, who is observing the dream with him. The next dream, Wei Wuxian *knows* it’s a dream. He runs into a younger version of Lan Wangji, they interact a bit, and they wake up, yaddayadda. The next time they dream, Wei Wuxian plays out a fantasy, that he did not have as a teen, of dragging Lan Wangji into the back hills and provoking him into, well, railing Wei Wuxian. He is, indeed, successful. So, if you ever wondered, yes, he does indeed enjoy that, and he enjoys it when Lan Wangji is rough.

What he *does not* enjoy is impact play/spankings, nor do I believe he has a humiliation kink. He wakes up and immediately falls out of bed. Lan Wangji, now that he’s awake and fully remembers his whole life not just being a teenager railing adult Wei Wuxian in the back hills, calls him back to bed. He goes willingly, with the caveat that Lan Wangji not hit him again. This is, again, under-negotiated kink. We have no cause to believe that the two of them would have other encounters that would involve more of the same. So in a dream, they tried a new kink, and Wei Wuxian didn’t like it. It happens, and he’s still quite pleased to be bitten and handled roughly, and they still have sex.

So. Is the Phoenix Mountain Kiss a character flaw? I don’t think so. I think it was a lapse in judgment and good taste, but then so was that boyfriend I had at twenty. Do I think it was romantic, no, not really. Lan Wangji doesn’t think it was romantic, not even in the moment, or he wouldn’t have taken off so quickly or done it so quietly. Do I think that they role play that scene a few times, if only in the Incense Burner Dreams? Oh, most definitely. I think the only character flaw on display was Wei Wuxian allowing an unknown to take advantage of him, because he didn’t think his own comfort/wants mattered as much as letting this happen, and I blame *that* on a lot of other things.

Ok, so about that Phoenix Mountain kiss scene

About a year and a half ago, my friend tried to get me into anime. MDZS was the second one recommended to me, and we sat down on a sofa to watch it together on a laptop. My friend's description, by the way, was very bad (“Guy comes back to life and goes on adventures with his past life’s friends.” “Wait how did he die?” “His brother killed him.” “Why did his brother kill him?” “It’s understandable.” “…Sounds like I won’t like this protagonist very much.” “Just watch the anime.”) It was during the third episode that I saw Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji meet, and I, an avid fanfiction reader, immediately said “someone ships it.”

“It’s canon in the book,” my friend said.

“Really?” I said. I’d never seen an actual canon gay couple before. “That’s cool.”

Later, after we’ve discussed how it’s censored in the show and how tragic that is, my friend asks, “Do you want to hear about their first kiss?”

“Sure,” I said.

“So [wwx] is blindfolded.”

“Wait why is he blindfolded?”

“Archery thing, he’s showing off.”

“Okay cool.”

“And he’s in the forest, and he hears a noise, and he’s like, ‘who’s there?’”

“Okay.”

“And then [lwj] kisses him.”

Now that’s not what I’d been expecting at all. But I immediately thought of movies with varying levels of dubious consent and how they use the audience “knowing” that the other characters actually “wants it” to get away with it. I figured that they have a ~passionate kiss scene~ and then Wei Wuxian takes off the blindfold and goes “Oh, it’s you!” and they get together.

So I said, “they get together after that, right?”

“No.”

“No? Then do they ever, like, talk about it?”

“Yeah,” my friend said. “At the end of the novel, when [insert vague euphemism for sex here] and they kiss, and [wwx] is like ‘oh that was you’ and [lwj] is like ‘yeah.’”

“Wait that’s it?” (Side note: it’s so very fanfiction to get kissed and think “yo this is familiar”).

“Yeah.”

So it’s armed with second-hand knowledge from my friend who had read the book that I entered the fandom. To my surprise, I found people on Tumblr who say that the kiss scene was intended to demonstrate a character flaw of Lan Wangji, and that it is discussed later in the book. This directly contradicts what my friend told me, and I have no way of telling who is correct because I have not read the book.

(Though on the topic of character flaws, I will say this: it doesn’t make much sense to me, because 1) a flaw that you’ve spent your whole life trying not to emulate because your father did it is not one you’re likely to pick up, especially if you didn’t interact much with your father. And 2), sexual assault is not caused by being too horny™, but rather entitlement. (Yale University defines sexual assault as “a broad category, denoting any kind of nonconsensual sexual act: touching and kissing can be forms of sexual assault, for example, as well as some forms of oral sex. The legal definition of sexual assault varies from state to state, but indicates some form of nonconsensual penetration.” Obviously this definition varies from country to country too; nevertheless this is the definition I am working off of when I classify the kiss scene as a sexual assault. Whether it’s acceptable varies by period of time and culture, but it’s still assault. Sexism is still sexism even if it’s acceptable. Homophobia is still homophobia even if it’s the norm). Entitlement is a character flaw, you could say, but it’s a product of your upbringing. All this to say that entitlement is a valid character flaw, but…it doesn’t make any sense).

Obviously I cannot say with certainty whether the people on Tumblr or my friend are right, because I haven’t read the book, but I can speak with certainty about the fandom, because I’ve spent a long, long, long time reading MDZS fanfiction. And here’s the attitude that I’ve seen in every single fic that uses the book as canon (save for one (1) fic): the kiss scene was not a “character flaw” of Lan Wangji. Rather, it’s understandable that Lan Wangji “just couldn’t help himself” because Wei Wuxian was “asking for it” by being “too pretty” (and yes, I am quoting fics here). So if the author did intend the kiss scene to be exemplary of a character flaw, it did not come across at all to the book fandom.

I’ve been in this fandom for over a year now, and I’m still so confused. Is it in the book? Is it not in the book? If it is, why does the fandom disagree? Why do people on Tumblr have a different interpretation than the fic writers? Why are there such wildly different opinions on what happened in the book? What is going on?

Anyway if you can give me answers hit me up.

@antebunny I am sorry, I forgot about why the Rebel Scanlations would be important. The only complete translation of the novel is from Rebel Scanlations. So that’s what most people are basing their understanding on. It has a lot of trouble with tone, as I stated before, including changing some subtext. The scene where Wei Wuxian wakes up and reads Mo Xuanyu’s diary in the Rebel has him be very dismissive of Mo Xuanyu as “not just a lunatic, but a *homosexual* lunatic.“ Very negative view. Others, not so much, more just a “oh, yeah, fact slotted away.“

So most of why people are up in arms over it, again goes back to translation issues. Also, The Untamed is a lot more ‘showing’ of Lan Wangji’s internal conflict of liking this idiot (in a censorship approved way) vs this is an idiot. So The Untamed has more outward signs that Lan Wangji has liked Wei Wuxian for a long time, but still says that absolutely everyone thought they hated each other. It really doesn’t make sense.

Ok, so about that Phoenix Mountain kiss scene

About a year and a half ago, my friend tried to get me into anime. MDZS was the second one recommended to me, and we sat down on a sofa to watch it together on a laptop. My friend's description, by the way, was very bad (“Guy comes back to life and goes on adventures with his past life’s friends.” “Wait how did he die?” “His brother killed him.” “Why did his brother kill him?” “It’s understandable.” “…Sounds like I won’t like this protagonist very much.” “Just watch the anime.”) It was during the third episode that I saw Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji meet, and I, an avid fanfiction reader, immediately said “someone ships it.”

“It’s canon in the book,” my friend said.

“Really?” I said. I’d never seen an actual canon gay couple before. “That’s cool.”

Later, after we’ve discussed how it’s censored in the show and how tragic that is, my friend asks, “Do you want to hear about their first kiss?”

“Sure,” I said.

“So [wwx] is blindfolded.”

“Wait why is he blindfolded?”

“Archery thing, he’s showing off.”

“Okay cool.”

“And he’s in the forest, and he hears a noise, and he’s like, ‘who’s there?’”

“Okay.”

“And then [lwj] kisses him.”

Now that’s not what I’d been expecting at all. But I immediately thought of movies with varying levels of dubious consent and how they use the audience “knowing” that the other characters actually “wants it” to get away with it. I figured that they have a ~passionate kiss scene~ and then Wei Wuxian takes off the blindfold and goes “Oh, it’s you!” and they get together.

So I said, “they get together after that, right?”

“No.”

“No? Then do they ever, like, talk about it?”

“Yeah,” my friend said. “At the end of the novel, when [insert vague euphemism for sex here] and they kiss, and [wwx] is like ‘oh that was you’ and [lwj] is like ‘yeah.’”

“Wait that’s it?” (Side note: it’s so very fanfiction to get kissed and think “yo this is familiar”).

“Yeah.”

So it’s armed with second-hand knowledge from my friend who had read the book that I entered the fandom. To my surprise, I found people on Tumblr who say that the kiss scene was intended to demonstrate a character flaw of Lan Wangji, and that it is discussed later in the book. This directly contradicts what my friend told me, and I have no way of telling who is correct because I have not read the book.

(Though on the topic of character flaws, I will say this: it doesn’t make much sense to me, because 1) a flaw that you’ve spent your whole life trying not to emulate because your father did it is not one you’re likely to pick up, especially if you didn’t interact much with your father. And 2), sexual assault is not caused by being too horny™, but rather entitlement. (Yale University defines sexual assault as “a broad category, denoting any kind of nonconsensual sexual act: touching and kissing can be forms of sexual assault, for example, as well as some forms of oral sex. The legal definition of sexual assault varies from state to state, but indicates some form of nonconsensual penetration.” Obviously this definition varies from country to country too; nevertheless this is the definition I am working off of when I classify the kiss scene as a sexual assault. Whether it’s acceptable varies by period of time and culture, but it’s still assault. Sexism is still sexism even if it’s acceptable. Homophobia is still homophobia even if it’s the norm). Entitlement is a character flaw, you could say, but it’s a product of your upbringing. All this to say that entitlement is a valid character flaw, but…it doesn’t make any sense).

Obviously I cannot say with certainty whether the people on Tumblr or my friend are right, because I haven’t read the book, but I can speak with certainty about the fandom, because I’ve spent a long, long, long time reading MDZS fanfiction. And here’s the attitude that I’ve seen in every single fic that uses the book as canon (save for one (1) fic): the kiss scene was not a “character flaw” of Lan Wangji. Rather, it’s understandable that Lan Wangji “just couldn’t help himself” because Wei Wuxian was “asking for it” by being “too pretty” (and yes, I am quoting fics here). So if the author did intend the kiss scene to be exemplary of a character flaw, it did not come across at all to the book fandom.

I’ve been in this fandom for over a year now, and I’m still so confused. Is it in the book? Is it not in the book? If it is, why does the fandom disagree? Why do people on Tumblr have a different interpretation than the fic writers? Why are there such wildly different opinions on what happened in the book? What is going on?

Anyway if you can give me answers hit me up.

Novelist, @secret-engima. And maybe the specialist. Time travel, y’know?

i was thinking this morning about how i categorize fanfic authors that i enjoy like AKC breeds and decided to share my rubric with you:

the specialist: this author has a favorite kink or trope and has written 80% of the content in that tag. you know exactly what you’re getting. they have A Brand™️. no matter what other traits they display, dedicated rare pair authors belong here.

the chocolate box: essentially the exact opposite. this author will try anything once. they have 80+ works in the fandom with no discernible pattern. the shortest one is 268 words and the longest is well over 100k. this breed of author may or may not be related to:

the renaissance fan: they’ve written three things in your fandom: your favorite fic, your notp, and a bizarre crossover with a show you’ve never heard of. you hit “expand fandoms list” on their author page and have to scroll down twice to reach the bottom. whenever you curse the fact that you can’t legally commission fic writers, this is the author you’re thinking about.

the horn dog: they’re here for one thing and one thing only. if someone’s dick is not in another character’s mouth within 500 words, they apologize for it in the author’s notes. they have one (1) g-rated fic.

the rookie: this writer is usually young, new to fandom, or just got a beta-reader for the first time. their fics are a little all over the place, quality-wise, but you’re excited whenever their name pops up because their unique voice gets stronger every time. you feel a personal investment in their development, like you’re an old man reading the local high school sports page and saying “this kid’s the one to watch.”

the live streamer: the most prolific author in the fandom. their works are all over the front page when you sort by kudos. you have no idea how they generate this much work, and have seriously wondered if they have access to an extra-dimensional time portal. their stories are usually un-beta’d and the characterization varies wildly, but their best works are inspired and you’ve read them 30 times.

the cryptid: this one comes out of nowhere every two years, drops the best fanfic you’ve ever read, and disappears. fifteen months after you left a three paragraph comment about how they changed your life, you get a message in your inbox that just says “thanks.”

the novelist: we talk about “filing off the serial numbers” when someone reworks their most popular story to pitch it as an original novel; this author somehow does the reverse. their fics are excellent, usually long-reaching multi-chapter AUs that have almost nothing to do with the on-screen characters except their names. i’d like to extend my personal thanks to this breed of author because it’s the closest i get to reading an actual book.

the reunion tour: this author wrote some of the most popular works in the fandom, but either moved on to k-pop or burned out when canon took a turn for the worse. they put out one new thing a year, often an old draft that’s been haunting them from under the floorboards. their last six author’s notes all say they never thought they’d write this pairing again and “this will probably be the last time.”

who did i miss?

Horror is waking up and realizing you had an assignment due at midnight.

so I just woke from a dream where the reason no one can find Baoshan Sanren’s mountain is because it’s the freaking Burial Mounds. That’s not odd at all, right?