Me In The Hannibal Universe Scrolling Through The 210k Word Story/philosophizing Section On Hannibals

Me in the Hannibal universe scrolling through the 210k word story/philosophizing section on Hannibal’s food blog trying to find the recipe: who the fuck is will

How much more does this color the goodness of Jon?

Who despite the hardships and his own flaws... He turned his cloak twice, once for false and once for true... And loved his father's culture, people and home...

To the point that when a foreign king declarant sought his advice on the North, he did not sow seeds of chaos upon his father's people the way other bastards might have.

I'm sorry this is a little late, but I just read your write up of your GRRM Q/A. First of all, I wanted to thank you for it! It was lovely. I have a question: why do you think Martin consider Jon unloved by Ned? I never got that impression from the books. Do you think he just missed Jon being lumped in/it was lost in translation? (I just can't imagine why he would put Ned in on the same level as Tywin, Randall, and Balon, especially after all the sacrifices Ned made for Jon.)

Thank you :)

This is a good question. No, there was no error in the translation, and GRRM didn’t miss Jon’s name (Jon was mentioned directly after Sam, before Tyrion and Theon). As I’ve said in the post, this question caught my attention more than the others (because of the mention of Jon), and I locked my eyes on GRRM’s face to see his reaction. When he heard the question, he didn’t seem surprised or perplexed to hear the name Jon, he simply nodded and smiled, and said “happy families are boring”.

While it does seem unfair to put Eddard on the same level as Randyll, Balon and Tywin, the question was more centered on the sons than on the fathers, and how the sons dealt with their fathers’ rejection. 

And well, Jon didn’t have an exactly happy childhood, did he? He always felt he was an outsider in his family, that he did not belong in Winterfell - although he wished to. He was a bastard and treated as a bastard, and it hurt him a lot - his sense of worth, his self-esteem, his well-being. Jon never was and never will be a Stark, and he knows it. And the rejection haunts him:

He would be back in Winterfell with his brothers.Your half brothers, a voice inside reminded him. And Lady Stark, who will not welcome you. There was no place for him in Winterfell.

Last night he had dreamt the Winterfell dream again. He was wandering the empty castle, searching for his father, descending into the crypts. Only this time the dream had gone further than before. In the dark he’d heard the scrape of stone on stone. When he turned he saw that the vaults were opening, one after the other. As the dead kings came stumbling from their cold black graves, Jon had woken in pitch-dark, his heart hammering. Even when Ghost leapt up on the bed to nuzzle at his face, he could not shake his deep sense of terror. He dared not go back to sleep.

“We’re not friends,” Jon said. He put a hand on Sam’s broad shoulder. “We’re brothers.“ 

And so they were, he thought to himself after Sam had taken his leave. Robb and Bran and Rickon were his father’s sons, and he loved them still, yet Jon knew that he had never truly been one of them.

Jon had never met anyone so stubborn, except maybe for his little sister Arya. Is she still my sister? he wondered. Was she ever?He had never truly been a Stark, only Lord Eddard’s motherless bastard, with no more place at Winterfell than Theon Greyjoy. And even that he’d lost.

He dreamt he was back in Winterfell, limping past the stone kings on their thrones. Their grey granite eyes turned to follow him as he passed, and their grey granite fingers tightened on the hilts of the rusted swords upon their laps. You are no Stark, he could hear them mutter, in heavy granite voices. There is no place for you here. Go away. He walked deeper into the darkness. ”Father?“ he called. ”Bran? Rickon?“ No one answered. A chill wind was blowing on his neck. ”Uncle?“ he called. ”Uncle Benjen? Father? Please, Father, help me.“ Up above he heard drums. They are feasting in the Great Hall, but I am not welcome there. I am no Stark, and this is not my place. His crutch slipped and he fell to his knees. The crypts were growing darker.

Why am I so angry? he asked himself, but it was a stupid question. Lord of Winterfell. I could be the Lord of Winterfell. My father’s heir. It was not Lord Eddard’s face he saw floating before him, though; it was Lady Catelyn’s. With her deep blue eyes and hard cold mouth, she looked a bit like Stannis. Iron, he thought, but brittle. She was looking at him the way she used to look at him at Winterfell, whenever he had bested Robb at swords or sums or most anything. Who are you? that look had always seemed to say. This is not your place. Why are you here?

That morning he called it first. ”I’m Lord of Winterfell!“ he cried, as he had a hundred times before. Only this time, this time, Robb had answered, ”You can’t be Lord of Winterfell, you’re bastard-born. My lady mother says you can’t ever be the Lord of Winterfell.“

I thought I had forgotten that. Jon could taste blood in his mouth, from the blow he’d taken.

You can’t be the Lord of Winterfell, you’re bastard-born, he heard Robb say again. And the stone kings were growling at him with granite tongues. You do not belong here. This is not your place.

And Eddard is partly to blame for that. Lady Catelyn would have never loved Jon, but she was a woman, and had no power over his life. Eddard could have legitimized Jon, and raised him as Jon Stark (he could have removed him from the line of succession to please Catelyn, since Lords can decide and name their successors) - and Jon’s life would have been much easier.

And Eddard was cold … There isn’t one single memory of affectionate moments between Jon and Eddard in their POV chapters. Eddard didn’t seem to be a warm person overall, but he was especially distant towards Jon. I am sure he loved him in a way, because Jon was Lyanna’s son and Eddard loved his little sister, but he didn’t express or show his love, and he loved the children of his own body more. Eddard didn’t give Jon the same attention and privileges he gave to his children, notably Robb. Jon and Robb were the same age, they were friends, but Jon could always see how differently they were both treated. For example Eddard was grooming Robb for command (as was expected for a first born son of course) but he didn’t educate Jon:

Lord Eddard had often made Robb part of his councils back at Winterfell.

Robb was part of the councils, not Jon. It wouldn’t have hurt anyone to teach Jon about politics even though he would never be Lord of Winterfell - Jon would have gained experience and could have advised Robb later in his life. Instead Jon was just excluded.

Eddard didn’t try to prevent Jon from joining the Night’s Watch either. He knew that it wasn’t a place for a young boy, but he let Catelyn had her way. And when Jon first discovered what the Wall was truly like he was very hurt:

Jon wondered if his father had known what the Wall would be like. He must have, he thought; that only made it hurt the worse.

Finally, when Cersei and Eddard have their famous conversation, Eddard mentions his many mistakes:

"I have made more mistakes than you can possibly imagine,” Ned said.

And it strikes as odd that Eddard - who was a respected Lord and loved by his people - would think that, since there was nothing in the text about his bad decisions. I believe that these mistakes are all related to Lyanna, the Rebellion and Jon. Eddard knew Lyanna didn’t love Robert, yet he didn’t explain that to him or appeal to his father, and might have felt guilt over his inaction, knowing what resulted from it (Lyanna running away and the Rebellion). It could even be that Eddard knew that Lyanna fell in love with Rhaegar and went with him willingly, but said nothing. And maybe he also wished he would have been a better father to Jon Snow.

Masterpost Targaryen/Stark parallels and contrasts in AGOT

This post is a list of the parallels/contrast I found during the reread in AGOT alone (I’ll do one for each books).

The first one I found was the Direwolves and the dragons being born which bookends a game of thrones. the Direwolves were born in the snow/ice while the dragons were born the sand/fire, all of them are born of the dead, only death can pay for life is probably illustrated there with both species.

Viserys says: “the dragon remembers” in the first Dany chapter about the stolen throne by Robert and the rebellion which later parallels with “The north remembers” when talking about the red wedding and the death of (some of) the Starks.

the Starks and Dany both have anti slavery values: We can see it in Dany’s chapter’s (this feels obvious) but also with Ned when he said that about Jorah “so the slaver has become a spy,’ Ned said with distaste. He handed the letter back ‘I would rather he became a corpse’  (I cheered)“ which is followed by Arya “he should have killed the masters”.

The description of the traits of blood of the dragon and the wolf blood are actually extremely similar : reckless and passionate and a bit chaotic and independant.

The way they talk about the dragon skulls (which are Targaryen thing) as if they are still alive and watching in King’s landing and the way they talk about the dead men in a crypts (which is a Stark thing) as if they were alive and watching in Winterfell.

The parallels/contrast between Viserys and Ned’s death. Both of them dies a traitor’s death by execution but only one of them is guilty.

I think that’s a stretch but Dany plunge her entire body into the fire to create life and Jon plunging his hand into the fire to save a life might be put in here.

Cat’s quote which makes the Targaryens and the Stark direct parallel explicit : “if you lose, there is no hope for us. They say there is naught but stone at the Heart of Casterly Rock,Remember the fate of Rhaegar’s children”.Two houses seemingly destroyed by Tywin Lannister with horrifying means with secret heirs and children still alive all over the world with magical creature maybe able to change the outcome of the war for the dawn.

The parallel/contrast between Rhaenys and Arya, two little girls who got Balerion the Cat and the first victims of Tywin, (the parallel is done by Varys), Arya being the one saved by Jon’s gift (who is technically both of theirs brothers) and her knowledge of the tunnels created by the Targaryens (and she feels protected by the dragon’s skulls).

Robb being crowned king and the next chapter Dany getting the symbol of her queenship and essentially being crown queen in her own right with the birth of the dragons a chapter away from each other

There are a lot of Fire (for Targaryens) and Ice (For the Starks) symbolisms, although some characters from said house are associated with other elements (Arya and water, which is what happen when Fire melt ice so this feel relevant to her character in general but this isn’t about that) :

In the first Dany chapter again: her brother had often said that it was never too hot for a Targaryen. “ours is the house of the dragon” he would say, “The fire is in our blood”

In the Second Cat chapter:: Ned could never abide the heat, the Starks were made for the cold: “Even now, he was a Stark of Winterfell, rage and grief froze hard inside him” which links the Stark explicitely with the cold.

I might do a seperate post on Dany and Arya’s arcs specifically (in the entire series) paralleling each other sometimes.We’ll see.

“Gandhi said that whatever you do in life will be insignificant, but it’s very important that you do it because nobody else will.”

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Tyler Hawkins

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